Why doesn't EL AL fly here into Australia

[Debra Rettie]

:):)Hi,

Does anyone know why EL AL does not fly here into Australia?

[Andrew C]

As i understand it EL AL security requires to have their own weapons the Australian gvt would not agree to that.

[Matt_L]

Indeed,
Andrew has it spot on, that is the main reason.

[Montague S]

I hear that our Jewish friends prefer Emirates.

[Tim C]

:):)Hi,

Does anyone know why EL AL does not fly here into Australia?

Dear Debra et al,

I am not quite sure on why EL AL et al do not fly to Australia. However im sure ELAL enthusiast Granny Smith from this board will be able to offer a insight onto their reasoning for not coming here.

Cheers

[Matt_L]

Funny one Montague.
Actually quick q,
If you have Israeli stamp on passport in many arab countries you cannot get entry into due to this, anyone know if any place within UAE is like this?
not that id ever visit DXB or UAE- :mad:

[Grant Smith]

Dear Debra et al,

I am not quite sure on why EL AL et al do not fly to Australia. However im sure ELAL enthusiast Granny Smith from this board will be able to offer a insight onto their reasoning for not coming here.

Cheers

Thanks Tim, but Andrew has already nailed the answer on the head.

Funny one Montague.
Actually quick q,
If you have Israeli stamp on passport in many arab countries you cannot get entry into due to this, anyone know if any place within UAE is like this?
not that id ever visit DXB or UAE-:mad:

Matt_L,

What countries would these be Matt? I've never heard such an obsurd thing occuring before and as I understand, it does not occur in DXB or AUH.

I am curious to hear your reasoning Matt.

[Will T]

Grant, I'm not sure what the state of play is at the moment, but certainly for many years there were restrictions on entering Jordan and Syria if one had an Israeli stamp in their passport. Tourists were often advised to either sequence their itinerary such that they visited Israel last, or alternatively to have a piece of paper stamped by Israeli customs in lieu of their passport.

I don't know what the current situation is, it's been a few years since I've been to that part of the world. But I would be highly surprised if the UAE placed any such restrictions on its visitors.

[Grant Smith]

Grant, I'm not sure what the state of play is at the moment, but certainly for many years there were restrictions on entering Jordan and Syria if one had an Israeli stamp in their passport.

Would that be along similar lines to the "security" questions asked by LY security staff i.e they notice a middle eastern countries stamp in your passport and you're then asked 20 questions as to why you were there?

[Montague S]

Would that be along similar lines to the "security" questions asked by LY security staff i.e they notice a middle eastern countries stamp in your passport and you're then asked 20 questions as to why you were there?

mate...they ask you 20 questions when your photographing their planes! that's been a long standing tradition with our Israeli friends. Yes, certain Arab neighbours will NOT let you into their country if you have Israeli or certain Arab Israeli border-crossing stamps in your passport.

UAE also has it as do most Muslim nations with the exception of Jordan, Iran, Egypt & Turkey...but our Jewish & Arab friends have one thing in common which could see it lifted in the UAE...diamonds!

and yes you read right, Iran, but only for Iranian Jews! Iran has 2 or more flights a year between there & Israel so its Jewish population can visit family and friends and vv.

[Tim C]

I have also heard of people getting pieces of paper stamped in Tel Aviv and other hostile areas instead of their passport for less hassle later on.

Cheers

Tim

[Ash W]

Thanks Tim, but Andrew has already nailed the answer on the head.



Matt_L,

What countries would these be Matt? I've never heard such an obsurd thing occuring before and as I understand, it does not occur in DXB or AUH.

I am curious to hear your reasoning Matt.

It is actually quite true, places like Saudi and Pakistan etc do not like seeing a visa or stamp from Israel in someone's passports. By the same token Israel doesn't like seeing stamps from some Arab countries in people's passorts too. This is one reason why the Aus government allows people to hold concurrent (ie 2) passports.

As for the security question's you will find the staff that ask these are not El Al staff but Israel security forces (think it is Mossat or something like that). I copped one hell of a grilling last time I left Israel (flying BA) because the taxi driver who drove me from Jerusalem was an Arab. This was at the security gate to the airport, then copped another grilling by the staff at the bag check area inside the airport about what I had done whilst in Israel and when I told them where I stayed in the Arab part of Jerusalem (The American Colony) the questions got bizzar to the point of stupidity and paranoia. Israel is one place I would rather not go to, but sadly I must go there at least once every year or so.

As to why El Al doesn't fly to Aus, guess the answer is there is not enough business to justify it, like many carriers from Europe they can quite happily connect through passengers with other airlines such as Qantas, Singapore, Thai etc for the last leg.

[Andrew C]

As I understand it at one stage it was seriously considered but they failed to make agreement with the Aust. GVT.

The staff are specially trained for this type of security work. Who they work for is probably academic but the airline is now a private company.

January 2005
Airline control is transferred to private ownership – Following the exercise of additional options, on December 23, 2004 the holdings of Knafaim-Arkia Holdings Ltd. rose to 40% of the shares issued by the airline, and on January 6, 2005, following a decision taken at a meeting of stockholders convened at Knafaim's request, most of the members of the Board of Directors were replaced. As a result, control of the airline was transferred to Knafaim.

El Al spends $100 million a year to conform with the airline security measures required by Israel's Shin Bet security service

Flight security measures
Undercover agents (sometimes referred to as sky marshals) carrying concealed firearms sit amongst the passengers on every international El Al flight.[47] Most El Al pilots are former Israeli Air Force fighter pilots, and all El Al flight crew members are trained in hand-to-hand combat. Most El Al employees, male and female, have served in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), as Israeli citizens are drafted at the age of 18.[48]


Wiki entry on security.

The cockpits in all El Al aircraft have double doors to prevent entry by unauthorized persons. A code is required to access the doors, and the second door will only be opened after the first has closed and the person has been identified by the Captain or First Officer.[48] Furthermore, there are reinforced steel floors separating the passenger cabin from the baggage hold.[49] This is intended to strengthen the plane in case of an explosion.
Following an attempt to shoot down an Israeli airliner in 2002,[50] all aircraft in the fleet have been equipped with an infrared countermeasures system called 'Flight Guard', developed by Israeli Aerospace Industries to defend them against anti-aircraft missiles.[51][52] [53] Although comparable systems such as CAMPS are now available for civilian aircraft, there is no information to date about any other airlines deploying such a system. Switzerland and other European countries have expressed concern that flares dropped by the Israeli system could cause fires in the vicinity of an airport.[54] However none of the higher risk countries that the El Al aircraft fly to have raised any concerns.

The Australian market may be small which now may make it not viable but more direct flights could be helpful to people wanting to travel there.

The grilling is worth it to avoid the consequences of lax security.