Pressure to let foreign airlines fly domestic

[Nigel C]

There has to be some sort of protection offered by this government for Australian business. Something the Rudd government has a lacklustre history in. The Australian marketplace is constantly under attack from overseas interests, in almost every sector. The last thing we should be supporting is yet another way for foreign companies to muscle in on Australia.

Australian businesses need to learn to stand on their own 2 feet and become competitive in their own right, without the backing of the Federal Government. The Fed Govt is there to run the country by way of the public sector, not prop up the private sector.
I, for one, didn't support the widespread idea of the Fed Govt propping up Ansett when it was going under in 2001, and I'm glad they didn't sink public money into a rotting corpse.

Nick, can you give a few examples of the 'lacklustre history' of the KRudd government when it comes to protecting inefficient businesses?

If the Australian marketplace is under foreign attack, then perhaps certain sectors need to look at ways of doing business smarter, rather than relying on government protection. The Australian taxpayer deserves for their money to be spent wisely.

[Andrew McLaughlin]

Sorry mods if we're headed off on a tangent here, but I think it's important for Nick to qualify his statements...

Originally Posted by NickN

Setting a precedent such as this is dangerous. If everything goes to the dogs and foreign carriers take over the domestic market you can't just turn around and tell them to go. Once they are in, they are in.

And what if it doesn't all "go to the dogs"? What if the competition provides a better market for the customer?

Originally Posted by NickN

There has to be some sort of protection offered by this government for Australian business. Something the Rudd government has a lacklustre history in.

That would be the Rudd government that has only been in for 10 1/2 months after 12+ years of coalition rule? Please cite some examples where this "lacklustre history" has occurred?

Originally Posted by NickN

The Australian marketplace is constantly under attack from overseas interests, in almost every sector. The last thing we should be supporting is yet another way for foreign companies to muscle in on Australia.

Wake up and smell the coffee Nick! We live in a global economy and, with a population of <23 million, we have neither the industrial base nor the population to stand on our own. If you want the government to favour home grown products by selectively choosing who can and cannot enter our market or by selectively applying tarrifs, then you may as well kiss most export opportunities for Australian industry goodbye!

Originally Posted by NickN

I find it very un-Australian to be supporting and assisting overseas business to profit from Australian customers when we could be promoting a home grown business instead.

"un-Australian"...oh puhleese!!

Originally Posted by NickN

Personally I always prefer to choose a home grown business to deal with over one that is under foreign ownership to help support Australian business.

And having foreign airlines here shouldn't change your preference to choose! If you want to continue flying Qantas or Jetstar, then go for it. If someone else offers a better product at an equal of cheaper price, you still have that choice.

[D Chan]

Is there a need to further de-regulate the market? I believe the answer is no.
More interestingly perhaps Air New Zealand could try operating domestic sectors - afterall Australia and New Zealand are under the Single Aviation Market agreement?

And what about those airlines from city-states like Singapore and Hong Kong? What could our airlines possibly ever gain in return for giving them access to the domestic Australian market?

Look at the major carriers in the US at the moment. All are struggling due to over-competition - who really is benefiting out of all these? Not airline employees, not airlines, not shareholders, and to some extent not the travelling public. Yes, after de-regulation airfares sharply declined, but there is a point when airfares can't go lower because airlines can't sustain profit on routes anymore, which forces them to pull out of the route etc. (This is exactly what would happen if foreign airlines were allowed to fly domestic). Then have a look at the domestic Chinese market - a few years ago the Chinese government did something unthinkable - consolidating the smaller carriers under the 'big 3' - Air China, China Eastern, China Southern. This mightve been considered 'stupid' back then but this decision actually makes a heck of a lot of sense in the current climate.
Controlled growth is better than uncontrolled growth that results in undesired outcomes.

And what about the long-held notion that the Australian airspace could only sustain 2 majors? At the moment you've got Virgin Blue and the Qantas Group (incl Jetstar and QFlink). Virgin Blue isn't in a particularly good shape at the moment (just look at its abysmal share price as an indicator). I would expect Qantas's profits to fall as well.

Now is simply not the time to let foreign airlines fly domestic.

[Al.B.SYD]

I don't think a wholesale "fly anywhere and as much as you want" approach is palateable, but a limited opening such as allowing Domestic pax on those triangulated routes (a la UA MEL-SYD and the old TG/NG/MS/SA/MH style connections) isn't going to be much of an issue given it's probably one or two flights a day.

Some routes are crying out for extra capacity/competition - I don't think anyone would decry an International carrier offering domestic seats/fares on a ADL-DRW leg en-route to Asia or CNS-DRW enroute to Asia as examples. Good for the locals and helps fill empty seats for the carrier, which in turn could spur more direct services opening up outside of the golden triangle.

[Mike W]

Originally Posted by NickN

I find it very un-Australian to be supporting and assisting overseas business to profit from Australian customers when we could be promoting a home grown business instead. Personally I always prefer to choose a home grown business to deal with over one that is under foreign ownership to help support Australian business.

I the mean time then, the Australian customers can pay through the nose through lack of competition?

[Adam P.]

Compare fares (in real terms) uder the two-airline policy to those we see today.

I hardly think Australian customers are "paying through the nose" for airfares.

[Rhys Xanthis]

Originally Posted by Adam P.

Compare fares (in real terms) uder the two-airline policy to those we see today.

I hardly think Australian customers are "paying through the nose" for airfares.

I have to agree here.

I personally am happy with the way it is at the moment - fares are not ridiculously high, service is pretty good, and so is the quality of service.

Paying $220 for perth to melbourne seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[NickN]

D Chan, Adam P and Rhys have all made exceptionally good points.

We don't need foreign airlines here. Things are definately fine the way they are. Airfares here are cheap and as mentioned the service is fine.

If it aint broke don't fix it.

[Grant Smith]

Originally Posted by NickN

D Chan, Adam P and Rhys have all made exceptionally good points..

Why is that Nick? Because they all more or less agreed with what you were trying to say?

Hardly exceptional...

[Andrew McLaughlin]

Originally Posted by NickN

D Chan, Adam P and Rhys have all made exceptionally good points.

We don't need foreign airlines here. Things are definately fine the way they are. Airfares here are cheap and as mentioned the service is fine.

If it aint broke don't fix it.

So, you're not going to qualify your previous comments then?