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  #11  
Old 30th May 2011, 11:43 AM
Jason H Jason H is offline
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The only security check I've had is with obtaining an ASIC, and you don't need one of those to fly in command. Phillip, as far as I am aware every violation is 'triggering', but because most are accidental and usually quickly identified, the majority of the time they pose no risk to other aircraft.
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  #12  
Old 30th May 2011, 11:50 AM
Matt_L Matt_L is offline
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Jason,

ASIC is required even to step out onto the tarmac at any security controlled airport ie Parafield and Mildura- so this pilot has had a background check to be issued one and able to do this on their own as Adam says.

I was just shocked that he climbed after he felt unwell- in training one is always taught if feeling unwell especially given single pilot ops to land asap- not climb where the airs thinner and hes likely to have suffered a shallower breathing rate.. I guess well have to wait for the ATSB investigation!
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  #13  
Old 30th May 2011, 11:52 AM
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Andrew P Andrew P is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Argy View Post
IMHO every violation of controlled airspace should be triggering at least an alert until it's established to be both inadvertent and innocuous
in the last 100 years how many violations of controlled air space have not been inadvertent and innocuous?
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  #14  
Old 30th May 2011, 12:15 PM
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Philip Argy Philip Argy is offline
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Exclamation Not good enough!

There were a few on 11 September 2001 that were neither inadvertent nor innocuous. I guess they achieved their objective because those monitoring were so used to false alarms.

If I have to run the gauntlet every time I board an aircraft, aren't I at least entitled to expect that EVERY controlled airspace violation is escalated urgently unless and until inadvertence and innocent intent is established?

In the case of this incident, how long before the plane crashed into an Adelaide city building should they have passively watched it and continued to ASSUME it was inadvertent and innocuous?

With ILS PRM, mutual breakouts are ordered urgently if the No Transgression Zone is violated. Yet here we had a violation of controlled air space over a major capital city with no communication from the pilot and, at least so far as we presently know, no security or defence agency being alerted or scrambled. I know its national cybersecurity awareness week but based on what we presently know, I'd call this incident national air security awareness weak!
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  #15  
Old 30th May 2011, 12:30 PM
Mick F Mick F is offline
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If you want to base a couple of F/A-18 Hornets within a few minutes flying time of every piece of Australian CTA, then I wish you luck.

It's easy to say all this I guess without knowing a lot about what really goes on every day in the skies around Australia.

And Matt, I agree with waiting for the ATSB report, but this IS the ATSB report, .

Mick
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  #16  
Old 30th May 2011, 01:11 PM
Matt_L Matt_L is offline
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Ha, fair enough!
Thought a review of the pilots medical records in detail Ie greater then 1/2 a page! or something a bit further would be done? Case closed then I guess

Last edited by Matt_L; 30th May 2011 at 01:17 PM.
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  #17  
Old 30th May 2011, 02:53 PM
Adam P. Adam P. is offline
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Re security checks, true, you do not need an ASIC to fly PIC. But read this from the CASA website:
Quote:
At a minimum, all pilots 18 or over must undergo the background checks for an AVID. Only those pilots who require access to a secure area of a security controlled airport will need to undergo the more robust background checks for an ASIC.
Note an ASIC supercedes the requirement for an AVID - so if you only have an ASIC that's ok. But all pilots require background checks.

Phil: Re this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Argy
IMHO every violation of controlled airspace should be triggering at least an alert until it's established to be both inadvertent and innocuous
See this from the ATSB report:
Quote:
As the aircraft appeared to be uncertain of its position and ATC was unable to contact the pilot, ATC declared an INCERFA phase.2 At 1635, the aircraft responded to ATC calls and was identified as YTF. A clearance was issued to Parafield Airport and the INCERFA phase was cancelled.
Note INCERFA, also known as an 'uncertainty' phase. This action was in accordance with the provisions of MATS (the Manual of Air Traffic Standards, aka the ATC 'Bible': "the pilot is not in normal communication" being in the clause in question). If attempts to contact the pilot were not successful, next would have been an 'ALERFA' or 'alert' phase, then if "unsuccessful inquiries point to the probability that an aircraft is in distress" that gets upgraded again to DETRESFA or 'distress phase'. As the phases become more serious outside agencies - AusSAR etc - become more involved.
So alerts ARE triggered for VCAs. There are people watching!

Note also that this guy was VFR, meaning ATC didn't necessarily have any details on his flight plan.

Adam

Last edited by Adam P.; 30th May 2011 at 03:52 PM. Reason: looking for the docs...
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  #18  
Old 30th May 2011, 05:16 PM
Russell D Russell D is offline
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Ok everyone, I know you all have opinions regarding the security etc, but if you don't mind I'd like to keep this thread a little more on topic please?

I.e., How did the poor guy involved end up in the situation he did? I mean, everyone is required to pass Class 1 medicals (class 2 of course for PPL and RAA) in Australia.

My concern is maybe the standard are to low? Perhaps not, having read through a lot of the criteria for the Class 1 which an approved DAME must follow. Plus, there's no way in the world any test can guarantee that someone will never experience a medical condition that might affect their performance.

What I would like to know is what the incident might mean for the pilot involved? As it states in the article, he has "ended his career", which I would assume must be very disheartening for the poor bloke, especially if his life's dream was a career as an aviator.

Still, I guess in the interest of safety...
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  #19  
Old 30th May 2011, 05:57 PM
Matt_L Matt_L is offline
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career ending Russ, unfortunately the guidelines are very strict and if something happens once its possibly a sign of a person's medical condition.

There was an event a few years ago where a S/O on a QF A330 lost consciousness in the cruise and I believe he was grounded.. TBC however- it was an active atsb report.
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