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  #11  
Old 5th April 2011, 01:18 PM
Gareth Forwood Gareth Forwood is offline
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I know it's slightly off the original topic, but I am 24 years old and don't think I've quite earned $120k in my life so far, let alone saved that much. When I was in Yr 12 I was considering the various options for flight training and at the time all were too expensive to afford (my parents briefly considered re-mortgaging the house but I wasn't willing to let them do that).

I think UNSW's program may now be payable completely though HELP/HECS, which essentially provides an interest free (well, indexed only to inflation) loan. That's probably a better way to go about it if money's an issue.
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  #12  
Old 5th April 2011, 02:57 PM
Mick F Mick F is offline
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$120K might be a lot to save, but what about loans?

And secondly, if you don't do a cadetship, it's a LOT cheaper!

Mick
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  #13  
Old 5th April 2011, 05:07 PM
Jakef Jakef is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Forwood View Post
I know it's slightly off the original topic, but I am 24 years old and don't think I've quite earned $120k in my life so far, let alone saved that much. When I was in Yr 12 I was considering the various options for flight training and at the time all were too expensive to afford (my parents briefly considered re-mortgaging the house but I wasn't willing to let them do that).

I think UNSW's program may now be payable completely though HELP/HECS, which essentially provides an interest free (well, indexed only to inflation) loan. That's probably a better way to go about it if money's an issue.
UNSW's flying stream of Bachelor of Aviation is only through HECS for the actual course fee, they flying training is about 100k and payable in 7 installments. I got an info pack for it a week or so ago and all the info is in there.
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  #14  
Old 5th April 2011, 05:52 PM
Owen H Owen H is offline
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Swinburne University do a degree program where FEE HELP (or whatever they're calling it this week) is available for the flying component upto just over 80k from memory.

There is no doubt that the cadet route is one that the airlines are pushing. With Jetstar, Rex, Sharp, QLink running them, and Virgin and Tiger talking about it, it seems to be the way the industry is going.

There is no way that the GA industry will be able to provide, medium term, the number of pilots that will be required in Australia, and despite many nay-sayers there is really no evidence that a cadet pilot is not of equal quality to a "GA" pilot throughout the world.

Cadet progams are not new, and have been well accepted throughout the world. The MPL is another issue, and with the work that ICAO and most regulators are doing on it (not CASA however) it will become more and more popular.
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  #15  
Old 5th April 2011, 07:33 PM
Mick F Mick F is offline
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Of all the cadet programs out there, the Qantas program is about the only one which I thought was sensible, value for money. Unfortunately they don't appear to have run it over the last couple of years. Maybe something to do with a certain other airlines cadet sha... I mean scheme........?

I'd be a bit more supportive of "other" airlines cadetships if they weren't there to rip off cadets, place them on seperate agreements to the rest of the pilot body and to ensure airline execs received bonuses because of the 'success' of the cadet sha... ah there I go again, scheme.

For those who aren't aware, there is currently a Senate Inquiry going on concerning pilot training and airline safety standards (among many other things!) in Australia. While many will argue the bias that Pprune provides with such a topic, there is a thread there concerning the Senate Inquiry that is well worth a read. Contains links to many reports by Plane Talking's Ben Sandilands. He seems like he's the only journo to have his finger on the pulse so to speak, about the going's on of the Senate Inquiry.

I only have a bit over 8 years of experience in the aviation industry and all of that has been in General Aviation, so I can only provide a point of view from my experience over those years, but I (and also shared by many others in the industry) am growing more and more concerned about the number of young people who are so tunnel visioned on getting an airline job, that they don't explore all possibilities and avenues that are available to them. In particular, training and the range of jobs available to them once they are qualified.

One of the major impacts this will have on the industry in the long term is the lack of pilots coming through the ranks to keep this very vital part of the Australian Aviation Industry going. I don't think people understand how important GA is to Australia, which can have major implications later on.

I guess the point I'm trying to make, is for those who are thinking of entering the industry, DO YOUR RESEARCH!!!!!!

Mick
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  #16  
Old 5th April 2011, 08:32 PM
Jakef Jakef is offline
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Part of the reason I have decided not to actively pursue cadet programs is that they put cadets on a different agreement and well below standard wage. I also have heard rumours that in most cadetships a cadet won't get allocated that many flying hours under their employment. I have decided the only cadetship I will apply for is the Cathay Pacific one, mainly because they pay for your training and then put you on the same sub-standard wage, which is marginally better I suppose.
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  #17  
Old 5th April 2011, 08:54 PM
Russell D Russell D is offline
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Quote:
Mick F wrote:
$120K might be a lot to save, but what about loans?
And secondly, if you don't do a cadetship, it's a LOT cheaper!
Correct. But considering couples are struggling to afford a home loan and live out the "great Aussie dream of owning your own house", $120K for a newly fledged school-lever very much seems like trying to buy a house. I.e., it can be quite daunting to know you have a big loan + interest to pay off as a young adolescent, especially when there is no guarantee that you will indeed achieve your goal/dream of making it into an airline or high-grade GA pilot career.

Quote:
Owen H wrote:
There is no doubt that the cadet route is one that the airlines are pushing. With Jetstar, Rex, Sharp, QLink running them, and Virgin and Tiger talking about it, it seems to be the way the industry is going.
There is no way that the GA industry will be able to provide, medium term, the number of pilots that will be required in Australia, and despite many nay-sayers there is really no evidence that a cadet pilot is not of equal quality to a "GA" pilot throughout the world.
Once again all true, but I just get the feeling that the airlines are slowly working to a system where the majority or all of their intakes will only come from cadet programs, resulting in any hope for people in GA looking for career progression being dashed.

Quote:
Mick F wrote:
I'd be a bit more supportive of "other" airlines cadetships if they weren't there to rip off cadets, place them on seperate agreements to the rest of the pilot body and to ensure airline execs received bonuses because of the 'success' of the cadet sha... ah there I go again, scheme.
And that in itself is my main concern with these cadet programs. I get the feeling the airlines seem to love the idea that cadet pilots cannot really bargain much for (what I would call fair) higher pay because they don't have the hours experience to demand a higher income. E.g. if someone from GA with say 3000+ hours rocks up and tries to negotiate a certain entry-level pay with an airline, the airline could easy turn around and say "fine, we'll just get a cadet pilot instead at a lower wage". Such a scenario is sad not only for the GA pilot, but the cadet pilot as well, and the only real winner is the airline and its executives.

Quote:
Mick F wrote:
...I (and also shared by many others in the industry) am growing more and more concerned about the number of young people who are so tunnel visioned on getting an airline job, that they don't explore all possibilities and avenues that are available to them. In particular, training and the range of jobs available to them once they are qualified.
That is a fair statement, and I would be kidding myself if I said I wasn't one of those young people only think aviation = airline or military. If it wasn't for this message board and me beginning my flight training, I would have never really realised that GA even existed. But having said that, I know a lot of senior instructors and other pilots (in or still trying to get into GA) who have/are trying to get into a major airline but have found themselves knocked back repeatedly despite being well qualified (at least in terms of hours and ratings etc). So its not surprise that for young up-and-coming pilots, a cadet program seems the easiest and best way to get in.

Anyway, that's just my views of all the issues surrounding cadet programs and career progression in the industry itself, but I am sure there are plenty of people on here much more knowledgeable and better informed on these issues than me. So I'm quite happy to just enjoy flying for recreational purposes for now.
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  #18  
Old 5th April 2011, 09:27 PM
Jakef Jakef is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell D View Post
And that in itself is my main concern with these cadet programs. I get the feeling the airlines seem to love the idea that cadet pilots cannot really bargain much for (what I would call fair) higher pay because they don't have the hours experience to demand a higher income. E.g. if someone from GA with say 3000+ hours rocks up and tries to negotiate a certain entry-level pay with an airline, the airline could easy turn around and say "fine, we'll just get a cadet pilot instead at a lower wage". Such a scenario is sad not only for the GA pilot, but the cadet pilot as well, and the only real winner is the airline and its executives.
Capitalism in it's finest form right there
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  #19  
Old 10th April 2011, 05:27 PM
NickN NickN is offline
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I'll get further details when I see her this week. He works for VB and from everything I was told this opportunity is through VB. He was given a choice of doing it at Bankstown or Melbourne (not sure which Melbourne airport was only told Melbourne).
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  #20  
Old 10th April 2011, 08:41 PM
Rob R Rob R is offline
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JB at the senate inquiry on the 18th of March said the cadet program will start in early 2012 and they still have many details to sort out. There has been nothing released by the company since then, so I can’t see how someone could be offered a course and be given a price for the program.
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