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  #41  
Old 8th October 2008, 08:03 AM
NickN NickN is offline
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Do microbursts even occur at FL390?

To the credit of Ian Ross (Ch9 Sydney?) I was watching the news when he came on with the old "In breaking news" and introduced the Qantas issue he only mentioned that a Qantas Airbus has called Mayday and made an emergency landing at Learmonth with passengers suffering suspected fractures.

There was no sensationalism at that time.
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  #42  
Old 8th October 2008, 09:20 AM
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Philip Argy Philip Argy is offline
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Default CASA on turbulence

CASA has a page devoted to Turbulence at http://www.casa.gov.au/airsafe/trip/turbulen.htm

Here is what they have to say about CAT:

Quote:
Clear air turbulence

There are several notable problems with clear air turbulence:
  • It cannot always be foreseen so there is no warning.
  • It is usually felt at its mildest in the flight deck and is generally more severe in the aft section.
  • It can occur when no clouds are visible.
  • Aircraft radars can't detect it.
  • It is common at high altitudes, where cruising airline suddenly enter turbulent areas.
Turbulence is the leading cause of in-flight injuries. There are countless reports of occupants who were seriously injured while moving about the passenger cabin when clear air turbulence is encountered.
The causes
  1. Thermals - Heat from the sun makes warm air masses rise and cold ones sink.
  2. Jet streams - Fast, high-altitude air currents shift, disturbing the air nearby.
  3. Mountains - Air passes over mountains and causes turbulence as it flows above the air on the other side.
  4. Wake turbulence - Near the ground a passing plane or helicopter sets up small, chaotic air currents, or
    Microbursts - A storm or a passing aircraft stirs up a strong downdraft close to the ground.
Injury prevention

In-flight turbulence is the leading cause of injuries to passengers and crew. Occupants injured during turbulence are usually not wearing seatbelts, ignoring recommendations to keep seatbelts fastened even when the signs are not illuminated. It is recognised that passengers need to move around the cabin to use restroom facilities or to exercise on long flights. However you should keep your seatbelt fastened at all times when seated.
From 1981 through 1997 there were 342 reports of turbulence affecting major air carriers. Three passengers died, two of these fatalities were not wearing their seat belt while the sign was on. 80 suffered serious injuries, 73 of these passengers were also not wearing their seat belts.
Turbulence related incidents

The following are recent jet airliner mishaps from around the world. In each event, at least one passenger/flight attendant was injured during an unexpected turbulence encounter.
  • During a flight from Singapore to Sydney with 236 passengers and 16 crew, the airplane encountered turbulence over central Australia. The plane hit an "air pocket" which caused it to drop 300 feet. Nine passengers including one pregnant woman and three crew members suffered various neck, back and hip injuries, with one of the passengers requiring surgery. Those who were injured were not wearing seat belts.
  • During a flight from Japan to Brisbane 16 passengers were injured when a large aircraft encountered turbulence. Passengers had been advised to keep their seatbelts fastened while seated. The pilot in command reported that flight conditions were smooth prior to encountering the turbulence. The weather radar did not indicate adverse weather, so the crew did not turn on the seatbelt signs. A number of the passengers who were not wearing their seatbelts were injured when they were thrown from their seats.
  • A jet hit air turbulence shortly before it landed at a Hong Kong airport, injuring 47 people, seven of them seriously. "It happened very suddenly and everything was very chaotic," one of the 160 passengers aboard the flight said. "The plane just dropped and I saw things flying all over."
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  #43  
Old 8th October 2008, 09:31 AM
Christian Dietzel Christian Dietzel is offline
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It could never have been an A320 as this has only a seat capacity of 148 passengers. It was an A330-300 and it carried 302 Passengers.
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  #44  
Old 8th October 2008, 09:48 AM
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Montague S Montague S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Argy View Post
CASA has a page devoted to Turbulence at http://www.casa.gov.au/airsafe/trip/turbulen.htm

Here is what they have to say about CAT:
fly in to Perth on a warm day and you'll understand what turbulence is all about...

roughest flights I've ever had have always been the ones coming back to Perth in the summer time from the east coast, especially when your coming over the hills on approach to YPPH.
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  #45  
Old 8th October 2008, 09:55 AM
Daniel M Daniel M is offline
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reports coming through that sources inside QF have mentioned the incident was caused by a "computer malfunction"....
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  #46  
Old 8th October 2008, 10:24 AM
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Jason Carruthers Jason Carruthers is offline
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[QUOTE=Christian Dietzel;14053It was an A330-300 and it carried 302 Passengers.[/QUOTE]


That's funny. I thought QF's 333's were only configured 30J/267Y a total of 297 seats. Unless QF included the crew in the passenger count.




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  #47  
Old 8th October 2008, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Carruthers View Post
That's funny. I thought QF's 333's were only configured 30J/267Y a total of 297 seats. Unless QF included the crew in the passenger count.
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  #48  
Old 8th October 2008, 11:14 AM
David Ramsay David Ramsay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel M View Post
reports coming through that sources inside QF have mentioned the incident was caused by a "computer malfunction"....
I'm not a pilot, but I am an engineer. Logic would suggest that if the aircraft systems told it to change altitude even suddenly, the nose would lower and it would descend, albeit rapidly. It wouldn't just drop. The only thing that is going to make it drop as it apparently did is sudden loss of the lift component, due to absence of air flowing over the leading edge.

Tech crew, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
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  #49  
Old 8th October 2008, 11:34 AM
Daniel M Daniel M is offline
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Computer 'irregularity' on dropped plane

AIR safety investigators say there was an "irregularity" in the onboard computer equipment of a Qantas plane involved in a mid-air incident between Singapore and Perth.

The Airbus A330-300, with 303 passengers and a crew of 10, struck what the airline described as a "sudden change in altitude'' north of its destination yesterday.

The plane landed at Learmonth, about 40km from Exmouth, without any further incidents.

West Australian police said at least 20 passengers and crew aboard QF72 were seriously injured - some with spinal injuries and others with broken bones and lacerations.

Two Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) investigators are on the ground at Learmonth and five more are expected to arrive there later today.

The bureau's director of aviation safety investigation, Julian Walshe, says the plane was travelling at 37,000 feet and 110 miles north of Carnarvon when the incident occurred.

"The pilots received electronic centralised aircraft monitoring messages in the cockpit relating to some irregularity with the aircraft's elevator control system,'' he said in Canberra.

The aircraft then "departed level flight'', and climbed approximately 300 feet.

"The crew had initiated the non-normal checklist response actions.

"The aircraft is then reported to have abruptly pitched nose down.''
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  #50  
Old 8th October 2008, 01:11 PM
Rhys Xanthis Rhys Xanthis is offline
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If the nose first tilted upwards as some passengers said (and the news report above), is it possible that the aircraft, because of its high altitude and heavy load, stalled, and then descended rapidly because of the stalling?

If that did happen, perhaps its a question of what caused the upward movement of the aircraft to start with...

Also i found this FAA document regarding operations of aircraft at altitudes over 25,000 feet. It provides a small section about weather and the jet streams, and some info about CAT as well (Starting at page 12 on your PDF reader).

http://www.bom.gov.au/weather/national/charts/UV.shtml - Pretty extreme UV conditions out to the NW - thats todays forecast, but it wouldn't change much between 2 days.
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Last edited by Rhys Xanthis; 8th October 2008 at 01:19 PM.
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