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Old 28th February 2014, 03:40 AM
Kurt A Kurt A is offline
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Default Sydney Airport and Plane Spotters

Just in lieu of the recent announcement detailing the closure of the Sydney Airport observation deck and more so specifically in contrast to the backlash displayed in various forums and social media to the announcement itself, I just wanted to write a note of clarification regarding comments raised in general about Airport Spotting locations, Airside Spotting Tours, competitions and Sydney Airport's desire to cater to our aviation enthusiasts etc...

This is not an editorial sticking up or defending Sydney Airport, rather a perspective entertaining both sides of the coin to which I think can be discussed with a mature and educated approach. I personally have my own views on the above topics and a strong desire towards maintaining the positive-to-date relationship between "Plane Spotters" and Sydney Airport of which I've worked hard so far to employ of late on behalf of our forum, hence why I wanted to document the below.

With regards to Airside Tours and competitions; where possible, Sydney Airport has proactively engaged with the aviation community either through us (YSSY Forum) or via social media and through their own communication portals to provide controlled airside access on private tours, via not only as part of a media call or through competitions but also a unique and exclusive Plane Spotting Airside Tour.

Specifically for the Air India 787 event, two Plane Spotter seats were made available on the media bus for this event. Thus a competition was raised to entertain selection. Whilst only a small minority of people could be chosen as winners, the opportunity for anyone to enter and win was however completely open (except by age restriction if I remember correctly) and free to the public. Entry T&Cs were available for the entire public to review and the public even voted for the ten shortlisted photographs which made up that competition. Sometimes competition is a good way to determine who can attend an event as it's an all-fair approach when only a limited number of seats are available. Naturally not everyone can be selected to gain a seat on the bus, but competition can be a fun way to draw interest, engage people, provide interactivity and to allow an even playing ground for selection.

Airside access for six more Plane Spotters was delightfully made available on the Media Bus for the recent inaugural Sichuan Airlines A330 event, and availability was purely provided on a first come, first served basis specifically due to timing. In this instance plane spotters were not required to enter or win a competition to attend. They were however required to adhere to some standard T&C's for attendance, but again, the opportunity to attend was made completely open and available to everyone and the chance exclusively only available to our YSSY Forum.

For events like the two I've just mentioned; naturally, priority for seat availability on an Airside Bus will be given to mainstream media, however where there is capacity, Sydney Airport advise that they will continue to invite Plane Spotters on a media bus where operationally viable. Be it via competition for selection or other means. Whilst the requirements of the carrier will always come first, especially for inaugural arrivals etc, where possible, Sydney Airport do inform that they will endeavour to cater to Aviation Enthusiasts where feasible.

This is a really good thing for us, because keeping in mind, these are examples of Sydney Airport proactively engaging the Plane Spotting community. I never asked for it..... I mean, what an opportunity we have to gain airside access to photograph for special noteworthy events and movements that would normally only be available for media personnel or via commercial agreement upon payment. How cool! We should be grateful for these unique opportunities. To Jim M's point in another thread (and nothing personal to him at all), but yes, for some of the Airside opportunities there has been a competition, but not for all. One might remember back in 2012, in a first for both us and Sydney Airport, we were fortunate enough to host, an exclusive Airside Tour purely for tenured members of this Forum only. Thirty five seats were made available for a 2 1/2 to 3 hour airside bus tour of Sydney Airport which also included outside access for about one hour photographing alongside the runway. Sure, naturally again, there were some required standard T&C's to conform to, but selection and availability was open and posted well in advance to make it fair and transparent for everyone to attend and register interest.

You might be pleased to know that behind the scenes, future activities like the above are already being planned as I continue to hold discussions with Sydney Airport again about how we work together to bring a Spotting Weekend of some form to fruition for 2014 or 2015. Of course, nothing firm will be posted until all internal planning and departmental sign-offs are approved by the Airport, but what great steps forward we are experiencing?! Sydney Airport is keen to meet and discuss plans and consider what we're bringing to the table by way of suggestions and ideas. The fact that such meetings are even occurring directly with various stakeholders within the airport is a huge achievement and not anything we've ever had the benefit or luxury of in the past. And remain positive in the fact that these conversations don't just relate to airside tours etc, the forum for feedback regarding all things spotting at the airport is open and suggestions are being communicated.

Keep in mind, none of this even existed two years ago. Never before any personal communication by Anne Walker at Sydney Airport back in January of 2012 had the YSSY Forum or anyone for that matter seen an approved forthcoming application to help organise access on a Media Bus for a commercial event or to co-facilitate the organisation of an Airside Bus Tour purely for Plane Spotters which allowed outside airside photography that was also exclusive to our Forum members. We wouldn't have even dreamed of something like this, especially after the sudden and stale shut down of Airside Tarmac Tours at YSSY many years ago now; and even before that, the removal of photography altogether from their tours. How quickly we forget! So in general, we can't entirely say that Sydney Airport isn't doing anything for Plane Spotters, or that they trying to get rid of us or that they're ignoring us. On some scales, this simply is not true.

It is important to note that we've come leaps and bounds to get where we are today with this type of airside access and relationship with the Airport. I for one am personally very proud of the work and collaboration achieved to be able to offer such opportunities to the wider Plane Spotting Community, and I want to keep helping and supporting the cause so that we can all benefit in the future. I know these aren't a monthly or weekly event, but we must also consider the operation of the airport and what its main purpose is, the planning involved, and general logistics around putting it all together.

I also understand and appreciate that some of the things we've recently benefited from above aren't as tangible long-term and don't directly compare to say the revival of an observation deck, or a purpose built spotting platform at Shep's Mound or similar.... I do get that; but just small steps, one at a time. Things are in motion, we have to start somewhere and these things take time, lots of planning, approval and unfortunately sometimes setbacks. We must respect that. We are very lucky to have people like Anne Walker and Nigel C predominantly on our side lobbying for us internally at Sydney Airport, their passion and drive mostly outside of their direct roles; so we do sincerely appreciate that!

Whilst I agree with some of the recent feedback, suggestions and comments posted here and on other social media sites spoken in response to the closure of the Observation Deck, it was slightly displeasing reading some ill-thought comments of some who even benefited from said activities above. We can generally be very quick to pull the trigger on trashing or forgetting the good work Sydney Airport has recently contributed specifically in collaboration with this forum to generate positive working relationships, to enable things like unique Spotting Tours and Airside Access opportunities and their forthcoming willingness to work together in the future. I'm sure no hurt intended, as in contrast, it's also so positive and promising to hear that some of those suggestions and feedback are being communicated back to the Sydney Airport Customer Experience Team, this is really encouraging to hear, and so we should let it play its course. We don't know what's to come, so let's just wait and see.

Again as mentioned, reading through some of the comments on here and via social media, I do generally tend to agree that things for Plane Spotters at Sydney Airport have been on the downer for years, and can personally relate to most of all the unpleasant experiences of lost access to areas which most of you all raise in common. I've been coming to Sydney Airport and spotting since the mid 90's and it's not hard to have a negative opinion like most when we've all seen over the years the loss of legal access to the Radar Field, 16L Mound and Gate 16 roadway closed to the public for parking, losing complete access to the VOR field beyond the international long term car parking, the closure of parking by locked gate at general Holmes drive for 16R, and the continual deterioration of the mound and many others.... yes I agree, after a while it does get a little disheartening.

In fact I and a few others still posting here were actually some of the late Bruce Shepherd's closest friends, of whom we now call The Mound his hill. We even scattered his ashes over The Mound after his passing, so even for me it is kind of sad that this area in particular has been ignored and may be lost at some stage in the future. But we must remain positive, we must continue to work with those within Sydney Airport who do care for us and who are willing to work with us so we can continue to achieve better things in the future. We need to keep them on our side, and in appreciation we must also be open to change and consider that things will not always fall in our favour.

Of course I can also see firsthand what really frustrates people the most and empathise to common themes that echo thoughts resembling "It 'seems like' Sydney Airport doesn't care, they don't think before they act, and that every decision is money driven, not for community, no interaction, no consultation and no effort to include Plane Spotters into the airport long-term." Most people might think just that, and in all honesty that might very well be the case in the grand scheme of things. I'm not immune to these thoughts and gripes, but in contrast I can appreciate both sides of the coin. We should all try do the same too, and remember that Sydney Airport is now a publicly listed company with around 100,000 investors, comprising super funds with mum and dad investors; and after all, the airport is an operation and has a specific purpose, so naturally not every decision will be made with a Plane Spotter in mind. We really must appreciate that.

And like any other passionate plane spotter or enthusiast I also know too well that that Sydney Airport could be more accommodating and proactive like other airports around the world who actually promote "Plane Spotting", or at least make it more accessible to the public too. Maybe we've just had it so good elsewhere that's why we're so opinionated with our ideas for Sydney!? We all know Zurich for example has high-rise perimeter fences around its airport with professionally framed open holes which purposely allow camera lenses through to take photos without the fence in shot, and they're scattered all around the airport. How cool would those be?! Plane Spotters there also benefit from a massive open air Observation Deck with a kids play area with toy planes and playground, cafe on top of their terminal etc. Coincidently London Heathrow opens a new viewing facility for passengers at Terminal 4 just yesterday, what timing! These are just a few of the many airport examples in Europe alone that show we've been spoilt with opportunities we'd only like to see replicated at our own home airport in Sydney. I do appreciate all of that too.

And furthermore, in my opinion I believe these types of integrations into an airport are actually largely welcomed and make a huge difference to the attitude of people who actually make full use of them, travellers, enthusiasts, staff etc. So of course, when you take them away, it only upsets people. I completely understand this and I do believe certain people at Sydney Airport can actually appreciate this also. But overall, unfortunate as it seems, there is a much bigger picture to consider, we need to keep that in mind and be mature about it; and instead, formulate ways to best work with the airport to achieve things that will hopefully be in the long-term interest for both parties, that work seamlessly with safety and security always in mind, that also encourages both community involvement, engagement and interaction to create similar benefits relating to plane spotting locations and access that some of the longer tenured members of this forum and plane spotters in general will remember having had the luxury of experiencing in the past.

I will continue to drive forward ideas and suggestions on behalf of this forum, the plane spotters and enthusiasts among us and I will continue to remain active and maintain relationships on your behalf. I'll also do my best to encourage Sydney Airport to remain open to feedback and suggestions, but I need collaborative support and enthusiasm from members and others to keep things positive for us to ensure solid cohesion for the future.

I'm really not sure what the future holds for spotting locations at Sydney Airport, and even with the recent approval of the Master Plan I'm not even sure Sydney Airport knows, things are always moving fast, plans are always changing. And fair enough, naturally the airport comes first, so anything spotting related would be secondary. Over the next 20 years it's probably safe to assume that as the airport further develops and as new terminals pop up, roadways get built, taken away etc, we'll notice the same for various spotting locations around the airport. These will most likely come and go over various locations and over various time frames too, we may even benefit from new ones by default, so it would be hard to plan something permanent until everything is set in place. I know it's easy to be discouraged and displeased with certain things, but all I can say is try to remain positive, focus on the good things some of the people at Sydney Airport are trying to do for us and just keep an open mind about other things, as we never know what is around the corner.

Believe me, I too am all for the big ticket items we all hold dear to our hobby as plane spotters, photographers and aviation enthusiasts; those being areas of access to watch planes and movements, being relatively close, without obstruction etc. Of course I'd also love to have framed holes in our perimeter fences for ease of photography too, perfectly positioned spotting decks with bar fridges, telescopes and iPads for radar tracking etc.... but one step at a time.

With anything it needs proper planning, consideration and there's always various stakeholders to appease, this will always be the case. But we must remain proactive and positive.
If we can do this or look like we're trying to do this, maybe, just maybe, we can influence change somewhere along the lines...

Kurt
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Old 28th February 2014, 06:46 AM
Mark T Mark T is offline
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Well said Kurt! An interesting "rant" at 4.40am!

I don't have time to go through all my thoughts now as I am supposed to be sitting down to the first work emails of the day, but I must say that I see Sydney as somewhere in the middle on the global scale of "spotting/photography friendliness". There are other locations around the world that definitely are more friendly, but then there are those that make it almost impossible to take any photos.

I would say that I would be happy to pay a small mount for better facilities. As others have said there is a great observation deck at Frankfurt with an entry fee and yet it is always busy.

I agree that we should try to work constructively with SACL and want to thank Kurt for all his endeavours thus far. Let's try and work together to achieve what we want - there are some people at SACL who will support us, so let's not "shoot the messenger".

Cheers
Mark
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Old 12th March 2014, 10:24 PM
Jim M Jim M is offline
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Kurt, thanks for providing such a detailed analysis of both sides of the story, so to speak.

I do understand that the Airport must consider its operations before anything and it's fantastic that we have some good people on the inside that are working with you and this community, to try and improve things for everyone, and I sincerely hope that continues to move in a strong, forward direction.

My comments were really made from my own point of view, pertaining to my own situation, and not aimed at offending anyone. I work 3 rotating shifts over a 24/7 roster, I have a wife and two young children and I am about an hour from YSSY, so I guess I don't get the opportunity to come into the Airport as much as I would like.

On the occasions that i do get there, I just want to have somewhere to go and spot, photograph and enjoy the day's operations, and to be honest, the deck was one of my favourites, so it would be fair to say, I was speaking with a reasonable amount of emotion.

When the closure was announced, my first thoughts were "great! What next?" The reason I say that is the frustration of some of the problems that we all know about and have experienced with the other "advertised" spotting areas, such as the 16L mound, and it all became too much.

Anything that can be done to improve things has got to be a good thing and, to you Kurt, I say thanks for all your work with SACL to try and achieve that for us all and I'm sure some good things will come out of it all in the future. For now, I am looking forward to getting in as soon as I can to try the new Rydges roof top spotting location, which is one of those good things! Some unbelievable photography has already been shot from there, by some of our very best. If I manage to capture something even half as good as what I've seen so far, I think I'll be happy.

Thats the end of my rant, thanks for reading

Cheers
Jim M
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Old 13th March 2014, 12:56 AM
Kurt A Kurt A is offline
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Hi Jim,

Thank you for your comments, I wouldn't consider it a rant at all.

It's important for you and others to share your thoughts and ideas, because if you don't, I can't lobby on your behalf regarding such concerns.

I appreciate the thanks, and can guarantee that you will be most impressed with the Rydges Airport Hotel Viewing Deck. I have uploaded some 'location' shots here to give you an idea of the surrounds:

http://yssyforum.net/board/showpost....0&postcount=36

The staff at Rydges are all very welcoming and quite excited that they can offer this vantage point for Plane Spotters. The Hotel Sales and Events Manager mentioned to me that she is happy that the area is being so graciously welcomed with so much enthusiasm. So this is good news!

Also, I am very excited about the future relationship with SACL, and already look forward to announcing some exciting news as early as next week. So stay tuned!


Update - YSSY Spotting Weekend 2014 announced:
http://yssyforum.net/board/forumdisplay.php?f=26
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Old 13th March 2014, 06:46 PM
Brenden S Brenden S is offline
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It is a shame to loose such a spot for viewing, but gaining another one is great too.

No matter what happens there will always be people who are interested in planes whether it is photographing, logging, videoing or just watching them take off and land. Perth airport has set up a wonderful area along with detailed descriptions of the airport layout, aircraft that are based at the airport and then anything else that drops in from time to time.

I personally would like to see perhaps something permanent set up at either Sheps hill, or in the long term car park (VOR field). However there would have to be some investment into those area's with little or no return on that investment.
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Old 13th March 2014, 08:36 PM
Jim M Jim M is offline
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Hi Kurt,

Thanks for your comments, and again, for all your hard work with SACL.

The photos from the Rydges look incredible, and I can't wait to snag an opportunity to get there, and I will certainly be keeping an ear out for any more announcements from yourself on here.

Cheers Mate
Jim M
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Old 24th March 2014, 10:32 AM
Dennis F Dennis F is offline
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Great comments Kurt, thanks for all the analysis and detailed thoughts.

I have one thing which has been in my mind since the closure of the T1 Observation Deck. I have been wondering whether SACL actually did a deal with Rydges (or whoever developed the hotel) that SACL would close the public free observation deck and funnel people to the observation deck offered by Rydges. Maybe SACL could get more commercial benefits from Rydges by agreeing to the closure of the observation deck (again I don't have any proof, I am purely guessing here).

While I agree $10 is a small change (I actually don't mind it by looking at the view as depicted in the facebook photo posted up by Rydges), I am wondering whether this will have future implications for other plane spotting locations around SYD.

I guess only time will tell, but I am content for now given there is still a decent spot available and the price doesn't seem to be unreasonable.
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Old 27th March 2014, 05:02 PM
Donesh I. Donesh I. is offline
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Could someone on this forum please tell me whether the staircase leading up to the observation deck is accessible?
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Old 30th August 2014, 09:37 PM
Terence W Terence W is offline
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I started spotting at the airport in early July, and the staircase to the observation deck is indeed closed, as is the lift. It's a shame it closed earlier this year; I never had a chance to go up and see the planes from there.
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Old 1st November 2014, 05:06 PM
Robert S Robert S is offline
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Sadly I had some unpleasantness with the AFP at Shep's Hill this afternoon. I was initially parked on the sealed road by the fence and they asked a couple of us to move because they felt the gate to the sub-station was being blocked. I thought I had kept clear and it may well have been the second vehicle that hard parked unnecessarily close to me (we were two of only three vehicle on scene when it parked, though a fourth vehicle arrived later). Not a big deal though (or any deal), they said they were happy for us to be there as long as the gate was clear, so I happily moved onto the main part of the mound without questioning it, well away from the gate.

The AFP vehicle then came up and parked directly across the rear of my vehicle to block me in position and three of them got out. One started passive aggressivly giving me the third degree about my scanner. I was polite and gave them direct answers but they took my licence and walked back to a huddle near their car. One was taking down all my details and rego in their notebook while the person who talked to me made a phone call describing my alleged offences and asking if I "was allowed to do that", rapidly followed by "that's what I thought".

They were creating such a scene that by this stage others on the Hill were panicking and asking if they were allowed to be there.

Following the phone call, while still trying to save face, they were quick to return my licence and mumble something about national security before wishing me a nice day. Not wanting to create any friction, I smiled, said I understood and thanked them before they rapidly left the scene. It was pretty embarrassing.

Sigh. Is it really too much to expect AFP on airport duty to understand some fairly basic radcomms law?
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