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  #21  
Old 20th May 2010, 08:44 PM
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Mike W Mike W is offline
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The problems with the A380 to-date compared to when the 777/744 or other Airbus aircraft were introduced have been less significant.

Dispatch remains at 97-98% which is better then what the 744 was at the same stage of development and when the 744 was introduced it was below 90%. Industry standard is 98.5%

A recent publication might shed some light on causes of reliability issues to-date:
Airbus are measuring themselves against an aircraft brought to market 20+ years ago? One would think advancements in technology (despite associated increases in complexity) would render improvements in despatch reliability. Surely?
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  #22  
Old 20th May 2010, 09:01 PM
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http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2010/05/17/

More on the "3Fatty" from FBE

Last couple of paragraphs are interesting
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Airbus will see that it has little option but to continue with the program and generate what little revenue it can from the backlog, given that the majority of the customers secured and continue to secure stunning, industry leading discounts on the jet to spur sales. Cancelling it wouldn’t recover the sunk costs but in hindsight, the money could have been better spent elsewhere and if the A350XWB hits a snag due to the resource drain, then it’ll be directly attributable to the A380 and the continued cost escalation on that program.

In five years time, the A380 will be a 20 year old concept, have ageing engines and will prove even less flexible as airlines continue to snare A330’s, A350XWB’s, 777’s and 787’s.

Make no mistake - those who have flown the A380 will know that its a fantastic airplane to fly on. Spacious, quiet and sports some of the newest technology available.

The A380 is best regarded as a $25 billion write-off and an act of industrial irresponsibility,” says Richard Aboulafia.

At worst, the A380 will far and away remain the biggest financial disaster the commercial aerospace industry has ever witnessed or ever likely to.
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  #23  
Old 21st May 2010, 12:15 AM
Ash W Ash W is offline
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Yet another article by Saj so I will take it with a grain of biased salt!
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  #24  
Old 21st May 2010, 02:55 AM
Saj_A Saj_A is offline
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Take it with whatever you wish. Doesn't change the fact the A380 is a financial disaster, just as my colleage Aboulafia asserts.

But then, its always easier to shoot the messenger rather than debate the message.
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  #25  
Old 21st May 2010, 10:10 AM
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Andrew McLaughlin Andrew McLaughlin is offline
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Take it with whatever you wish. Doesn't change the fact the A380 is a financial disaster, just as my colleage Aboulafia asserts.

But then, its always easier to shoot the messenger rather than debate the message.
And Saj, did you seek anyone else out to give their opinion of the A380's finanical prospects to perhaps balance your own (obvious) opinions, or did you just go to Aboulafia knowing he would back your own assertions up?

You're not propogating the debate by only using the opinions and comments of people that you know will support your own!
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  #26  
Old 21st May 2010, 10:25 AM
matthew mcdonald matthew mcdonald is offline
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But then, its always easier to shoot the messenger rather than debate the message.

Its pointless debating the message when no amount of debating will get through to you!
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  #27  
Old 21st May 2010, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew McLaughlin View Post
And Saj, did you seek anyone else out to give their opinion of the A380's finanical prospects to perhaps balance your own (obvious) opinions?
Who should I have asked when Airbus themselves (from Enders downwards) note that its a financial drain?

Classic example of failing to address the A380s miserable financial situation and instead turn the focus elsewhere. And if you were even half connected to the debacle to the A380 as I am, you'd know that's its not just Ricahrd and I who are critical of its non-existent business case. I'll leave that to you to find out sir.

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  #28  
Old 21st May 2010, 04:02 PM
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Who should I have asked when Airbus themselves (from Enders downwards) note that its a financial drain?
So, "Is the A380 a financial drain?" the best question you've got to ask? Hmmm... A drain at the moment doesn't necessarily translate to a...
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...financial disaster...
I'm not going to get into a ****ing contest with you about who's connected to whom. Most of the people on this forum know me and my credentials - I'll let them judge.

Nah, bugger it - just last week I spoke with Tom Enders, Tom Williams, John Leahy and Richard Carcaillet about just this subject and others, as well as getting opinions from several notable commentators who have no allegience to Airbus or Boeing.

I (and they) agree it's a financial drain, but with 10-15 years of production ahead of it, it's way too early to be calling the A380 a financial disaster!
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Last edited by Andrew McLaughlin; 21st May 2010 at 04:11 PM.
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  #29  
Old 21st May 2010, 04:42 PM
Saj_A Saj_A is offline
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So a program that has more than doubled in cost to over $25bn and still growing due to cost overruns and design changes, coupled with the inability to price the airplane profitably is not a financial disaster?



And if its about credentials/connections - I never boasted about mine or impugned yours, stick to the topic instead.

And in 15 years time, the A380 will be a 25 year old dinosaur with about as much sales/profit success as the ageing 767. Over half the A380 customers and backlog continue to be deferred, adding yet more production, planning, staff and supplier costs. But of course, they don't matter from a financial perspective, do they?

But I digress...
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  #30  
Old 21st May 2010, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saj_A
And if its about credentials/connections - I never boasted about mine or impugned yours, stick to the topic instead.
Hmmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saj_A
And if you were even half connected to the debacle to the A380 as I am...
But I digress...
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