Airbus A380 Woes Continue

[Saj_A]

Louis Gallois admission that Airbus’ flagship A380 will experience another period of languishing sales comes as no surprise.

What is surprising is that Gallois is “absolutely convinced” it would be a “success” ignoring the fact that despite being on the market for a decade, it has more than doubled in cost to produce yet cannot sell in any large enough numbers despite the heavy discounting to entice buyers in the first place.

Despite the biggest order boom in aviation history between 2005-2007, the A380 failed match the huge orders seen for the A330, A350, 777 and 787 and now has even less prospect of garnering future business as frequency growth takes charge.

More here.

[Ash W]

Pretty melodramatic thread title, for what is at the end of the day old news, regurgitated by a blog written by a one Saj Ahmad. Oh that's you isn't it? So in effect your are quoting your own website blog.

[Nigel C]

Ash, it may be trivial to some, but I think you left out a few things. Here, let me give you a hand...

[Ash W]

Too true Nigel.

By the way Saj, the meaning of the word Woe is:

n. archaic or literary 1 affliction; bitter grief; distress.
2 (in pl.) calamities, troubles.
3 joc. problems (told me a tale of woe).

Now if you were talking about the A380 program in it's development then yeah the title could well be applicable. But slow sales are far from a woe. Does Airbus seem all that concerned at present?

If we were talking about the continuing problems at Beoing with the 7late7 and 747-8 programs then yeah they would be woe's. Where are your reports of woe about these programs?

[Saj_A]

Originally Posted by Ash W

Now if you were talking about the A380 program in it's development then yeah the title could well be applicable. But slow sales are far from a woe. Does Airbus seem all that concerned at present?

If we were talking about the continuing problems at Beoing with the 7late7 and 747-8 programs then yeah they would be woe's. Where are your reports of woe about these programs?

One is clearly going to make more money than the other:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-update1-.html

And contrary to your assumption about Airbus' concern about the A380, I would kindly refer you back to Tom Enders comments earlier this year and remarks from 2009 where he described it as a financial liability.

BUt I digress

[Ash W]

The 'other' will make money for sure, of course only once it actually starts to make it to the customers respective fleets which is still some time off and like the A380 is several years behind schedule and over budget.

No one is arguing the A380 program in terms of sales has been well below expectations, but to say that the A380's woes continues and to have a blog entitled "Shoot the dog part five" is overly melodramtic and far from reality.

Over the past two years the A380 has proved itself in service and there clearly is a market for it but, yes sales are slow and it will take years to cover the costs of development and make a profit. All known facts and nothing new at all.

[Dan Collins]

Gotta admit, there's a LOT of negativity about the A380 program out there. Following many twitter accounts for Aviation info, seems like all of them have their regular spats about the A380 and never anything good to say - and they like to repeat themselves about it a lot.

Ah well. It's nothing new, it's not even interesting anymore. Even if there's truth behind it, it's been done so much it just feels like these particular writers just hate the project and want nothing but to see it burnt to the ground - or shot.

My take is different, as an aviation enthusiast I love to see them around our airports and I only hope that things improve for the program in the future to maybe get some positive news out there from time to time.

Dan

[Robert S]

Originally Posted by Dan Collins

Ah well. It's nothing new, it's not even interesting anymore. Even if there's truth behind it, it's been done so much it just feels like these particular writers just hate the project and want nothing but to see it burnt to the ground - or shot.

Nothing new at all... Boeing vs Airbus, Ford vs Holden... same old same old. At the end of the day, the A380 is operating and popular with pax, so the Boeing camp are going to be venting like Eyjafjallajökul... they've got nothing else until there's product on the ground... or in the air and in service more accurately.

Here is an illustration of what this process looks like. As you can see, both sides will continue without restraint and achieve nothing.

[Dale C]

Anyone that pretends the A380 isn't in a bad situation is burying their head in the sand IMO.

The article certainly is biased against the A380 and Saj is pretty pro-Boeing but the list of troubles for the 380 is long.

Most carriers having ordered the 380 have deferred it. I think the count is something like 13 out of 17.
The plane has garnered only 202 sales in 10 years, including the biggest sales boom in commercial avaition.
It has cost almost twice as much to develop as originally estimated, with figures ranging in the US$25-30m.
Production is still a joke. They won't manage 20 planes this year and the article mentions KE's 1st plane due this year has already been deferred until 2011. It's just too labor intensive. MH just had their 1st 380 deferred for 6 months, due to production issues. Why have these taken so long to sort out.
It does nothing other WB twins can't do, except carry more people. When the 747 era started, it had a huge capacity and range advantage over the 707/DC-8/VC-10.
It's been so long in development, that technology has passed it by. The 787/350 are far more advanced in materials, efficiency, engines......... It probably already needs more advanced and efficient engines and it certainly can't match the composite fuselage of the 787, nor the flying experience, with the 787 supposedly offering cabin pressurisation to 6000', higher humidity levels and a true anti turbulence dampening system, as well as those huge windows.
What's worst for the 380 IMO, is it's lack of flexibility. What happens in a world downturn? What routes do you switch your A380s to?
This all of course relates to the business case for the 380. Without exception, all that I know that have flown on the 380 have been exceptional in their praise for it. Maybe that can be it's saving grace, but I doubt it.

[Andrew M]

The A380 is a lovely plane to travel in, and yes of course people are choosing it over the B747 and to a much lesser extent the B777.

Once the B787 starts to enter service with nice new interiors, lots of "cool features" it will become the plane to fly on.

I doubt the A380 will ever be a huge success, most of the airlines that need it, have already ordered it.

The B787/A350 will be winners for both Boeing and Airbus.