2nd Full Service InterCity Carrier in Australia?

[Arthur T]

Originally Posted by Gareth U

Free Luggage Allowance
Virgin matches Qantas' 32kg at comparable fare levels to those charges by the full service carrier.

Full Customer Service
....

Free Newspapers
Only offered by Qantas on certain routes/times.

Free Headphones
Virgin offer free headphones.

Inflight Magazine
Offered by all carriers.

With respect to catering. Many would argue that they prefer the choice offered at the LCCs (or to BYO or eat before/after the flight) rather than being given two biscuits or just a sandwich of the airline's choosing.

Luggage Allowance:
Even I pay $8 to DJ, I can only get 23kg allowance and others I need to pay heaps. If I am going for a big trip and have more than 23kg, they would be much stricter than QF and need you to pay for it. My friend comes from Townsville to Sydney and take Jetstar and made her to pay for just 2/3 kg above 20kg allowance.
I believe even you exceed 2/3 kg allowance on a QF flight they will let them through as my experience on a Dash 8 with a 23kg bag.
If LCC offers passengers a choice, they must make a choice of prepaying $18 for 32kg bag rather $8 for 23kg or even $10 for 20kg only.

Customer Service
I believe the CS of JetStar would be more rigid than full service like Qantas do. Think about how much time you arrive airport before departure.
QF flights only requires you to arrive 15 mins (with No checked luggage) or 30 mins (with checked luggage), where JQ and DJ need you to waste 15 - 30 minutes more to wait at the airport, as they requires 45 minute arrival.
My another friend just travelled JQ to AVV from SYD, he forgot to get his boarding pass to board and struggled a lot to get the boarding pass finally. Think about Qantas, I saw many people didn't get their boarding pass until they reach the gates and take it from the CS Counter.

Customer Service think means ground staff service. Think QF can give you much better Ground service, more flexible and give you less stressed for a flight, as most services are done for you.

Inflight Service

I took Virgin Blue once as a Qantas Replacement Service. The flight attendants (as well as I see around the airport) by LCCs looks younger and more beautiful, attractive, sexy and charming to both guys and girls than those on Qantas. But think the experience and maturity on Qantas FAs can give a safe feeling to passengers on board, especially they can cater child really well.

I just flown on QF624 to Brissie and the FAs babysit for the baby around the 738 aircraft. Do you think you can just relax and have FA babysit for your baby on JQ/DJ?

Yes, DJ has free headphones, but that is not noise cancelling as what is offered on QF flights. Why DJ don't just sell a better headphones then?

Meals on Board

I agree that QF does not cater their passengers so well, just a few biscuits or cake on board doesn't make me feel full. LCC offers passengers a choice whether or not to eat, but I think they must offer choice to passengers to have much better food, otherwise there is no point to take LCCs. (For eg. I would rather to buy pinkles on Coles before heading off to the airport than to buy it inflight, but I would expect for at least a small piece of fish with rice on LCC.)

I don't agree you don't need to eat or drink for 1 hr flight, because you already spent another hour waiting to board and collecting luggage, furthermore you need anotehr hour to travel to and from the airport. Airport food are really expensive. (The Wok on Air sells stir-flies 100 - 150% more expensive than those offering in the city) So you see inflight food is really important. And how about water? You cannot bring water from outside, water in the terminal costs you $3.20/bottle. If your carrier even can't give you water for free, then you would really thristy and not good for health inflight for a hour or two and feel bad after the flight.

Generally, LCC is a good idea, they offer much cheaper fully flexiable fares and more importantly, cheaper Business Class seats that offers commuters more comfort in a cheaper price and a choice. As a result, I would expect a much higher add-on service standards on LCCs, where they cannot provide such to us, think a 2nd full service carrier would be a solution.

[Eli B]

The idea of having LCC's in Australia was to cater for a different type of passenger. QF and JQ are a team. Together they capture a large % of market share (sorry i couldnt find numbers)

Which way are DJ going to go? LCC or Full Service? Or both? It seems to me they are trying to cover both bases with the introduction of Premium Economy on top of their loyalty programs, Lounges etc. How good a job they are doing remains to be seen. Perhaps with the entry of Tiger, Virgin Blue may break free of their LCC model. Is it possible to fully transition?

Is there room for another Full Service Domestic Airline? It seems there wasnt enough room for OzJet. All the business ventures since the entry of Virgin Blue, excluding OzJet have been LCC - even after we said farewell to Ansett (r.i.p).(please correct me if I have missed an airline startup!)


Investors will risk money where there has been significant research to help them make a decision. Perhaps the fact that we have only seen OzJet attempt this hard task means that Australia can no longer sustain 2 Full Service Domestic Airlines? It doesnt mean that the numbers havent been worked on... we will never know!

[Justin L]

Originally Posted by Eli B

Do LCC's have a faretype that allows a commuter to arrive early at the airport and get on a flight earlier then their booked one? (Or later?) Of course it is up to availability, but in my experience men and women in suits are always doing this. There is a big rush for Friday afternoon flights when meetings run late or finish early. Do LCC's have the frequency for a commuter to take advantage of this faretype? I'm sorry I havent done the research cos im not a commuter... but its just a thought.

(If only Sydney's Cityrail had a Frequent Sardine System I would be saving BIG BUCKS!)

Wouldn't fully flexible fares on DJ and JQ allow them to do this? They are more expensive than their discount fares, but still cheaper than QF's fully flexible fares.

[Arthur T]

Originally Posted by Justin L.

Wouldn't fully flexible fares on DJ and JQ allow them to do this? They are more expensive than their discount fares, but still cheaper than QF's fully flexible fares.

That's my point, DJ and JQ's advantage is to provide cheaper business class seats whilst the service unchanged from QANTAS, which think is a great threat to QF's J seats.

DJ's flexible fares works quite well, but I don't think JQ works on their JetFlex, think about their rubbish frequency, I don't think a traveller would be any benefical from JQ's JetFlex fares.

There is no point to take JQ unless QF's fare is > JQ if you are a QF FF Member.

Opps that makes another point, JQ's FF Programme which is really awful, except you need to pay very expensively for a JetFlex for 1000 QF FF Points, which no one will do it. DJ's Velocity is really weird, I doubt how they can integrate themselves into any alliance in a near future with such a weird FF Programme.

I really recoknd JQ MUST giver 250/500 points to QF FF Members for JetSaver Fare + 5/10 Status Credits Minimum.
I cannot tolerate QF FF coomuters need to pay $229 for 1000 Points + SCs for a Brisbane - Proserpine One Way.

One more thing, on QF flights, FAs will give you a pillow and blanket, cover you well and ensure you have a great sleep with them, but can DJ/JQ do that for FREE?

[Marty H]

Think a few people on this thread are living in a 1980's TAA/Ansett fantasy land.

Airline travel used to be something with a bit of class, exculsive to people who were well off on business etc, people paid big money and expected fine serivce, crockery, cutlery you name it.

Something, somewhere clicked and we now have LCC's that now allow almost everyone the affordablity to fly, isnt that better for the travelling public???? Arent there now more people flying than ever before, they now have choice on what they want food/drink, TV and seating, majority of the time they get to their destination on time and all the time are there safely, thats what people want now, I mean from my opinion I dont need to have a full on meal on a 1-2hr sector, I might buy a drink but generally eat nothing and eat prior to boarding at the airport or at home, people are still in the mindset 'ohh Im getting on a plane they will feed me', airlines are there to transport you now on time and safely, I mean in your ticket price thats all your paying for anyway with a LCC.

People need to go with the times and accept change and evolve, three LCC's operatin gin Australia have proven that is what Australians want.

[Marty H]

Originally Posted by Arthur T

That's my point, DJ and JQ's advantage is to provide cheaper business class seats whilst the service unchanged from QANTAS, which think is a great threat to QF's J seats.

DJ's flexible fares works quite well, but I don't think JQ works on their JetFlex, think about their rubbish frequency, I don't think a traveller would be any benefical from JQ's JetFlex fares.

There is no point to take JQ unless QF's fare is > JQ if you are a QF FF Member.

Opps that makes another point, JQ's FF Programme which is really awful, except you need to pay very expensively for a JetFlex for 1000 QF FF Points, which no one will do it. DJ's Velocity is really weird, I doubt how they can integrate themselves into any alliance in a near future with such a weird FF Programme.

I really recoknd JQ MUST giver 250/500 points to QF FF Members for JetSaver Fare + 5/10 Status Credits Minimum.
I cannot tolerate QF FF coomuters need to pay $229 for 1000 Points + SCs for a Brisbane - Proserpine One Way.

One more thing, on QF flights, FAs will give you a pillow and blanket, cover you well and ensure you have a great sleep with them, but can DJ/JQ do that for FREE?

How is it weird You get one point per $1 spent, you can reclaim your points on any flight on any day at anytime, surely that isnt rocket science???

[Sarah C]

Originally Posted by Marty H

Think a few people on this thread are living in a 1980's TAA/Ansett fantasy land.

Airline travel used to be something with a bit of class, exculsive to people who were well off on business etc, people paid big money and expected fine serivce, crockery, cutlery you name it.

Something, somewhere clicked and we now have LCC's that now allow almost everyone the affordablity to fly, isnt that better for the travelling public???? Arent there now more people flying than ever before, they now have choice on what they want food/drink, TV and seating, majority of the time they get to their destination on time and all the time are there safely, thats what people want now, I mean from my opinion I dont need to have a full on meal on a 1-2hr sector, I might buy a drink but generally eat nothing and eat prior to boarding at the airport or at home, people are still in the mindset 'ohh Im getting on a plane they will feed me', airlines are there to transport you now on time and safely, I mean in your ticket price thats all your paying for anyway with a LCC.

People need to go with the times and accept change and evolve, three LCC's operatin gin Australia have proven that is what Australians want.

Well said Marty. Australians have a choice and the fact that all 4 carriers are successful shows that the mix is right.

[Michael Morrison]

Originally Posted by Arthur T

.

Inflight Service

I just flown on QF624 to Brissie and the FAs babysit for the baby around the 738 aircraft.
.....

Yes, DJ has free headphones, but that is not noise cancelling as what is offered on QF flights. Why DJ don't just sell a better headphones then?.

Ok - firstly, you should never expect an FA to babysit your child.

Re Headphones, QF don't have noise cancelling headphones in Y on domestic routes....so how can you compare?

They don't even have them on international Y.

[Michael Morrison]

Originally Posted by Arthur T

DJ's Velocity is really weird, I doubt how they can integrate themselves into any alliance in a near future with such a weird FF Programme.

Why is their program weird?

Air NZ have a program whereby you earn Air bucks at strange rates, but they still fit into a global alliance.

Also if you look at how you earn/redeem velocity miles with airline partners, I can't see how it would be different for alliance partners.

[Michael Morrison]

Originally Posted by Eli B

Do LCC's have a faretype that allows a commuter to arrive early at the airport and get on a flight earlier then their booked one?

It depends on the LCC.

In Australia, DJ do have multiple frequencies on business routes and do have fares that allow last minute changes, though obviously you pay more for that.

In Europe, Easyjet which is also a LCC offers as good a frequency on certain business routes and also offer flexibility to change to an earlier/later flight if needed. So Yes, LCC's do offer these types of things... but only the ones that focus on business routes.