VB to sell the E170 and replace it with Turboprops

[Hugh Jarse]

No type has been announced yet. If what you say is right Chris, I'd hate to be flying around the southern latitudes during winter, bearing in mind ice is the ATR's Kryptonite.

From a pilot's perspective - give me the Dash in icing conditions anytime.

[Mark Grima]

Having never flown in a turboprop commercially (given the choice of a short flight or a drive, i'll choose the drive everytime), are the comments in the article regarding cabin noise etc etc justified and is there a big difference bwteen the different makes.

I would of thought Borghetti's knowledge of the Q400 would make that the favourite, however having the ATRs flying commerically in Australia would be a nice new sie to see, prsuming they are not flying for a charter airline or something now.

Cheers

M

[Raymond Rowe]

Shame Fokker is no longer in the market.I always loved flying on the F27.The F50 were not bad.

[Rod Sloan]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jarse

I'd hate to be flying around the southern latitudes during winter, bearing in mind ice is the ATR's Kryptonite.

Is this still a factor Hugh ?? Given Air NZ operate them at latitudes further south than Australia and have had no issues (that I know of anyway)

[Hugh Jarse]

Rod, I wasn't aware Air NZ had 72's. If that's the case, I suspect they operate to modified procedures to minimise their exposure to icing, because it was a well known problem with that variant, with at least 2 fatal crashes directly attributable to ice accretion.

There were many AD's directed at remedying the problem, but these only go part of the way to addressing the problem. Some operators in the U.S. have in fact moved (redeployed) their fleets of ATR's to more temperate climes to minimise exposure.

One advantage of the Q400 is that it has proven itself in Australia and is already on the Australian register. Putting a new type on takes quite some work. I'm not sure whether the 72 has been done here (yet).

There is a considerable sized workforce readily available to bring the Q400 on line with a new operator. Qantaslink is in a fairly heated dispute at the moment with both its engineers and pilots, with a significant number ready to resign at short notice. There is heightened interest from many of my former workmates at Eastern in which type is selected, such is the level of discontent with their present employer.

The tactical advantage of this dispute to Skywest, is the resource pressure it would put on Qantaslink, should a large number of specialised staff decide to leave at short notice. A crew and engineer shortage will cause them to reduce and/or cancel services, while enabling Skywest not only to service existing VB ports, but gain a foothold in existing Qantaslink monopoly ports.

[Geoff W]

Hugh,

Gee, so challenging times for the QLink?

I like the Q400's, however the service reliability factor for QLink will be an important part of their ongoing success.

Have observed some unusual erratic delays in recent times, from YMML services, unsure if this is related to your information. Of course they maybe just be weather, YMML runway works or normal ops related delays.

Or maybe, they will just give up and let someone else do it.

Another business arm, they dont need to worry about?

Get back to a QF/JQ business?

Kind regards,

Geoff

[Dale C]

whatever, I think we'll know soon. I was told the DJ board met yesterday to discuss the TP purchase and a decision could be only a matter of days away.

[lloyd fox]

Decision was made months ago.

[Jarden S]

I like the ATR as have more legroom at the window seat compared to the Q400s which seem narrower at the bottom less room for your feet.

[Rod Sloan]

Hugh,

Had a quick look at wiki for some info re icing on ATR's. Makes for interesting reading.

In April, 1996 the American FAA issued 18 Airworthiness Directives (ADs), in an apparent attempt to prevent further icing accidents in ATR aircraft. They included significant revisions of pilot operating procedures in icing conditions (higher minimum speeds, non-use of the autopilot, different upset recovery procedures) as well as physical changes to the coverage area of the de-icing boots on the airfoils.
While the ATR-42 and ATR-72 aircraft are now compliant with all icing condition requirements imposed by those 18 ADs, the de-icing boots still only reach back to 12.5% of the chord. Prior to the accident, they had extended only to 5% and 7%, respectively. They still fail to deal with the findings of the Boscombe Down tests, conducted by British regulators, which demonstrated that ice could form as far back on the wing as 23% of the chord, and on the tail at 30% of chord. Both percentages remain well beyond the limits of the extended deicing boots, installed in compliance with those FAA ADs.