Virgin's Blue

[Jon B]

Read this letter in Saturdays (21/11) Melbourne Age. Whilst Virgin may be compliant with the regulations i think this is cost cutting to the extreme and Virgin should be forced to come into line with QF in this regard as it is risking the safety and wellbeing of their "Guests".

Flying out of sync internationally

AS A doctor, I responded to a call for assistance on a Virgin Blue flight from Perth to Melbourne. There was no equipment on board and the only thing in the first aid kit were bandages. The only course of action if the passenger deteriorated was to divert the flight.

I have a personal, professional and societal obligation to offer my expertise and care in this situation. What are the obligations of the airline?

The Civil Aviation Safety Authority confirmed that legislation for provision of medical kits was removed about 10 years ago. This is in contrast to 1986 Federal Aviation Authority requirements for American commercial craft to have emergency medical kits on board all craft with more than 30 seats.

The Virgin Blue website states that flight crew are not medically trained, nor is there provision of medical equipment. Qantas' website states that it has trained staff and medical equipment, including first aid kits and automated defibrillators, on all aircraft.

Virgin Blue's policy is disappointing but not illegal - a budget airline's stance of ''you get what you pay for''. I wonder, though, what prompted the decision to pull Australian legislation out of line with international standards?

Olivia Wong, Melbourne

As a very regular VB flyer (most weeks) i was surprised to read this letter, the excuse could not be weight - after all they fitted Foxtel, and have all those empty premium economy seats, as for being a low cost carrier - i think not!

[Mark Grima]

My first thought would be cost in providing the training. To train enough staff to have at least two first aiders capable of using defibs on each flight would be fairly expensive. I say two first aiders the use of Defibs is trained through a two person technique, at least by St Johns anyway.

The cost of the coarse is about $450.00 each I think, multiplied that by most of VBs flight crew, it gets up there. You then need to look at the cost of puchasing a couple defibs per aircraft which start at about $2,000.00 each. You could argue that this total cost (training plus defibs) would be much less then the cost of diverting an aircraft, however I would think that if that level of first aid is required then the aircraft would need to be diverted in any case.

Hence if you are the one at VB charged with making a choice about training staff or not and wanted to keep budgets in check you would have to look seriously at the option of not having that level first aid equipment on board.

It certianly surprising and disappointing to find out they do not have a well stocked First Aid kit on board each aircraft and also that all staff do not have basic First Aid training. To get aropund the cost issue of training staff in First Aid the airline could always write this in a requirment of the role before applying for it, this is only about a $80.00 - $90.00 outlay for the applicant which would then mean the airline only needs to pay for recerts at about $50.00 per person every three years.

Only my opinions but I can not think of any other reason why an airline would not have these items on board.

Cheers

M

[Marty H]

Im fairly sure all Cabin crew are all required to hold a vaild First Aid certificate, so I think that statement that they are not trained in first aid is incorrect, I know in the employment guidelines it states any person applying for a VB cabin crew position must hold a valid First Aid Certificate and also a Responsible Service of Alcohol certificate to be employed.

[Greg McDonald]

Originally Posted by Mark Grima

To get around the cost issue of training staff in First Aid the airline could always write this in a requirment of the role before applying for it, this is only about a $80.00 - $90.00 outlay for the applicant which would then mean the airline only needs to pay for recerts at about $50.00 per person every three years.

Only my opinions but I can not think of any other reason why an airline would not have these items on board.

Cheers

M

This IS a requirement of DJ before you can even apply for a cabin crew position - you must have a Senior First Aid Certificate.
I'm pretty sure it's a requirement of every airline flying in Australia.

[Hugh Jarse]

Mark, you might wish to retract your post.

As Greg wrote, all CC are senior first aid qualified, by St JOHN (not St. Johns) Ambulance.

Defibrillators are not mandated (yet).

Until then, leave your anti Virgin Blue/pro QF bias where it belongs, until you know the facts, sonny.

CASA removed the requirement for life rafts to be carried on certain flights. Qantaslink no longer carries life rafts on YLHI flights. So, basically, if a Dash has to ditch on the way to/from the island, you'll basically be shark *****. Does that make them more culpable?

Over to you.

[Gerard M]

Originally Posted by Mark Grima

My first thought would be cost in providing the training. To train enough staff to have at least two first aiders capable of using defibs on each flight would be fairly expensive. I say two first aiders the use of Defibs is trained through a two person technique, at least by St Johns anyway.

Going to have to disagree with this one. I've used both full scale ones in ambulance services many a times and seen demonstrations of the portable public ones you see in train stations across Europe and now here, it really isn't that hard! If an average John Citizien can use it at a train station it wouldn't be hard for the cabin crew to do it, considering the ones St Johns sell read you the instructions and tell you when to shock. And the most recent first aid course i went to they seem to be now incorporating that into it. But as Owen said, the fact that there appears to be insufficient first aid equipment is just mind boggling to me, out of all places a plane is where i would expect to find one when you need it most! I've got more than that in the boot of my car! And when weighing up spending money on appropriate first aid equipment and someones life...which one takes priority?

[Will T]

The carriage of a doctor's kit derives from an IOSA (IATA) Cabin Standard which recommends - but doesn't yet require - that aircraft with more than 100 seats, used for sectors longer than 2 hours, carry such a kit (QF/JQ: 'Physician's Kit').

[Isaac S]

Hi everyone, haven't posted since the old board, but you've brought me out with this one.

Doctors can and do respond in in flight medical emergencies, that is unless you are expecting a PhD in astrophysics to help you.

The issue about cover is a bit of a crock. The only doctor in Australia to be successfully sued in relation to a medical emergency was a doctor who *did not* respond. For the lawyers, the case was Lowns v Woods.

For mine, the Qantas medical kit is excellent, their support systems sound (Medlink) and crews well trained to deal with medical situations. Certainly can be a factor in airline choice for some doctors.

Of course, there will be situations that always require a diversion. But a good quality kit in good hands *might* save that. And airlines need to make those sorts of decisions on (all sorts of) commercial grounds.

Isaac

[Gareth U]

Originally Posted by Liam C

The physicians kit that QF has was significantly more comprehensive - the down side being that it could only be used by a medical doctor...

Cabin crew can access many non-drug items if a situation requires, and can access two drug items if specifically requested by the customer.

[Paul f.]

Well this Dr Wong should get her facts right,the VB website states that the cabin crew are trained in emergencey first aid but are UNABLE to adminster personal medication, which is standard practice.

Originally Posted by Jon B

Read this letter in Saturdays (21/11) Melbourne Age. Whilst Virgin may be compliant with the regulations i think this is cost cutting to the extreme and Virgin should be forced to come into line with QF in this regard as it is risking the safety and wellbeing of their "Guests".

Flying out of sync internationally
AS A doctor, I responded to a call for assistance on a Virgin Blue flight from Perth to Melbourne. There was no equipment on board and the only thing in the first aid kit were bandages. The only course of action if the passenger deteriorated was to divert the flight.

I have a personal, professional and societal obligation to offer my expertise and care in this situation. What are the obligations of the airline?

The Civil Aviation Safety Authority confirmed that legislation for provision of medical kits was removed about 10 years ago. This is in contrast to 1986 Federal Aviation Authority requirements for American commercial craft to have emergency medical kits on board all craft with more than 30 seats.

The Virgin Blue website states that flight crew are not medically trained, nor is there provision of medical equipment. Qantas' website states that it has trained staff and medical equipment, including first aid kits and automated defibrillators, on all aircraft.

Virgin Blue's policy is disappointing but not illegal - a budget airline's stance of ''you get what you pay for''. I wonder, though, what prompted the decision to pull Australian legislation out of line with international standards?

Olivia Wong, Melbourne

As a very regular VB flyer (most weeks) i was surprised to read this letter, the excuse could not be weight - after all they fitted Foxtel, and have all those empty premium economy seats, as for being a low cost carrier - i think not!