New VAustralia Flights to Phuket/Johannesburg

[Rhys Xanthis]

Originally Posted by D Chan

Joburg makes more sense than Phuket, don't think the yield at the front half of the plane to Phuket will be too good!
Is ETOPs a issue for MEL-JNB non-stop? I think the flight track would take them quite close to the Antarctic, with diversion point being thousands of kms away..

Their was a post earlier in this thread regarding this.

In a nutshell the flight is a good 60 to 90 minutes longer because they can't track as far South as the QF B744's do. So they can go non stop, it just takes longer.

[Erik H. Bakke]

Originally Posted by D Chan

re: routes to Japan - have to watch the Australian dollar - if it goes up against the yen it will make Australia even less appealing to Japanese tourists.

But it would make Japan more appealing to Australian tourists, wouldn't it?
Would that restore the balance?

[Anthony T]

MEL-JNB is 16:20 flight time

JNB-MEL is 13:00 flight time

Anthony T

[lloyd fox]

Innaugral VA 023 BNE-HKT just took off.

VH-VPE was the aircraft on this new route

Cheers Lloyd

[Marty H]

Anyone in the know, will the aircraft that operates VA11 MEL-LAX on the 01/12 ferry in the day before or that morning, or will VA10 operate into MEL from LAX arriving on the 01/12?

[D Chan]

Originally Posted by Lukas M

I think you will also find that these flights will be full of high school leavers, most defiantly in the first month of ops. Traffic to these destinations have been surging lately

The real question to the potential of this route is the demand in the front half of the aircraft and yield may be an issue. Perhaps there will be honeymooners in the front section of the aircraft, but the level of demand for premium travel is questionable given the absence of business traffic. To think outside the square though it is perhaps conceivable that there may be *some* demand on corporate execs holiday / retreat functions, though not sure how likely this would happen in the present economic climate.

[Justin L]

Interesting article from the SMH website.

V Australia's long-haul burden
March 27, 2010

V Australia's new air link to Johannesburg comes with 'baggage', writes Clive Dorman.

Virgin Blue's long-haul international carrier, V Australia, launched services last week on what is believed to be the most remote air route ever flown by a twin-engine aircraft between Australia and South Africa.

The Melbourne-Johannesburg route is only 10,339 kilometres - about the same as Auckland to Los Angeles - but rules governing the operation of twin-engine planes require V Australia to add more than two hours to the flight in each direction.

This is to ensure that the 361-seat Boeing 777-300ER can stay within about 1500 kilometres of the nearest airport if anything goes wrong - a maximum of three hours flying on one engine if the other engine has to be shut down.

Unlike the northern hemisphere, the extreme latitudes of the southern hemisphere are full of "no-go areas" for twin-engine aircraft and the V Australia 777s are required to stay out of them.

If the Melbourne-Johannesburg route was operated by one of Qantas's four-engine Boeing 747-400s, which fly the 11,044 kilometres between Sydney and Johannesburg six days a week (via the so-called "great circle" route - the shortest distance), the flight would be scheduled to take about 13 hours. That's because Johannesburg-bound Qantas Boeing 747s often fly almost due south after they leave Sydney, flying over Melbourne and western Tasmania, in search of the most favourable winds.

In latitudes near the South Pole, the prevailing winds, often called the "Roaring Forties" because of the latitude and the wind strength, generally come from the west at a minimum of 40 knots (74 kilometres an hour) but can be 100 knots-plus.

The 747 is considered so reliable it faces few restrictions on where it is allowed to fly.

The Sydney-Johannesburg "great circle" route almost touches the Antarctic Circle, passing close to the Australian territory of Heard Island.

To comply with regulations for twin-engine aircraft, V Australia has to add more than two hours to the scheduled flight in each direction to keep within range of the two main airports on the way: Perth and Mauritius.

At 15 hours and 15 minutes, the new V Australia service - the first between Melbourne and South Africa - will be quicker for Melbourne passengers than connecting with the Qantas service from Sydney to Johannesburg, which takes 13 hours 55 minutes, but only just.

The Boeing 777-300ER, a hugely popular version of the earlier Boeing 777-300, was the first twin-engine aircraft in history to be certified with a 180-minute ETOPS (extended range twin-engine operations) allowance when it went on the market in 2005. It was certified with that allowance by the US Federal Aviation Administration, whose rules are generally followed by the Australian Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA).

CASA says it's unlikely an Australian airline would ever be allowed to fly beyond the 180-minute diversion limit, even though the US authority occasionally authorises 777s flying across the North Pacific between the US and Japan to operate up to 210 minutes from the nearest airport to save fuel by avoiding strong headwinds.

At the launch of the Melbourne-Johannesburg route last week, Virgin founder Sir Richard Branson announced that demand for the service was so strong that V Australia would add a third weekly service from December, when it takes delivery of its fifth 777-300. Aviation industry sources say the UN's International Civil Aviation Organisation, which is responsible for global policy governing airlines, might introduce tighter rules for twin-engine planes in the next few years because of concern that remote operating limits on both four-engine and twin-engine aircraft have already been stretched too far.

Airlines love the Boeing 777 because it is about 20 per cent cheaper to operate than the four-engine 747, which it was designed to replace.

In its certification program, Boeing flew the 777-300ER as far as 5½ hours from the nearest airport and it performed flawlessly.

Qantas, with partner South African Airways, which flies from Johannesburg six days a week, until now has been the only carrier directly linking Australia and South Africa.

The final sentence reads a little misleading, but I guess they are talking about the QF/SA partnership in the singular, which would cover the SYD-JNB and PER-JNB routes.

[Michael Morrison]

The 747 is considered so reliable it faces few restrictions on where it is allowed to fly.

Hmm nothing to do with the amount fo engines then?

[Andrew M]

"UN's International Civil Aviation Organisation, which is responsible for global policy governing airlines, might introduce tighter rules for twin-engine planes in the next few years because of concern that remote operating limits on both four-engine and twin-engine aircraft have already been stretched too far."

Based on what ?

[Adam G]

Based on the fact that an engine failure is not the only (or indeed worst) failure an aircraft could have in a remote place.

Fire for example would be a much more critical event. Some of the rules that ICAO are looking at tightening would also potentially impact the B744/A340.