Jetstar fights out of balance

[Brian Noldt]

It is reported that a flight from Melbourne to Perth was nose heavy when taking off. Passengers were moved to balance the aircraft during the flight.

Another flight from Brisbane to Melbourne was 1300kg heavier due to extra passengers that the pilots were unaware of.

Story from ABC News here:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-0...umbers/6999898

[Greg Hyde]

There has been an on-going issue in the US regarding the average weight of PAX.

Several crashes in the US (a Beech 1900 comes to mind) where the aircraft was overloaded and average weight of PAX was in question.

As the population grows (pun intended) this problem is not going away.

Has the average weight for a PAX been adjusted in the last couple of years ?

[MarkR]

Originally Posted by Greg Hyde

There has been an on-going issue in the US regarding the average weight of PAX.

Several crashes in the US (a Beech 1900 comes to mind) where the aircraft was overloaded and average weight of PAX was in question.

As the population grows (pun intended) this problem is not going away.

Has the average weight for a PAX been adjusted in the last couple of years ?

CASA recommended datum has not changed since 1990

https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/g/file.../ops/235_1.pdf

[Mick F]

Those weights in reality for an "Average" weight, would be pretty close to the mark. If you consider how many people weigh less than those averages, then the number who weigh more, you'd find they even out.

In the Bus you can access part of the aircraft sensors that calculates the weight of the aircraft based upon air data. I think the biggest discrepancy I've ever seen between what the aircraft is calculating, vs what we calculated based upon our load data, was about 500kg's. Now if you take a fairly average weight of 66 Tons, this is a 0.75% error. Not a lot in the grand scheme of things. Not enough to make any difference to the way the aircraft fly's.

So in regards to average weights, do they need to be changed? Probably not. The margin of error is miniscule.

Mick

[Greg Hyde]

Thanks guys,

I seem to remember a story of an airline in the pacific (I think) that charges by weight of pax/person. The average is so far out of norm, it was the only way to get an accurate weight on props like Twin-Otters etc.

Blame it on poor diet, maccas, take-outs the average American (if there is such a thing) is up 30 pounds since the 1960's

The average weight of American women is as much as the average weight of American men in 1960, according to a report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

In 1960, the average American male weighed about 166.3 pounds, which was the average weight for American women in 2010 at 166.2 pounds, which marks about a 18.5 percent increase. The average weight for women in 1960 was 140 pounds, according to the CDC report.

The average weight for men has also increased to 195.5 pounds, gaining almost 30 pounds, which is a 17.6 percent increase.

Both men and women have also gained about an inch in height since the 1960s. The changes in height have been factored into some of the weight gain.

http://www.newsmax.com/US/average-we.../15/id/650546/

Hopefully they don't all sit down the back

[Greg Hyde]

Jetstar under investigation from ATSB and CASA over two serious incidents

Jetstar is under investigation by Australia’s two key aviation regulators for two serious incidents relating to passenger loading and weight calculations, including one that “required an almost full aft control input” to get the aircraft airborne on takeoff.

The first incident related to a Jetstar flight, operated by Airbus A321 VH-VWT, operating from Melbourne to Perth on October 29.

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) said the pilot flying noticed the aircraft was “nose-heavy” during the take-off roll and almost full aft control input was required to raise the aircraft’s nose. Put simply, the pilot needed to pull back almost completely on the controls to get the aircraft in the air.

“Once airborne, the flight crew requested the cabin crew to confirm the passenger numbers and seating locations,” the ATSB said in its notification about the investigation on its website.

“The flight crew re-entered the updated information into the flight management computer and identified that the aircraft was outside the aircraft’s loading limits for take-off and landing. Passengers were relocated within the aircraft cabin to return the aircraft to within allowable limits for the remainder of the flight and landing.”

The second incident concerned a Jetstar Airbus A320 VH-VQG, which took off from Brisbane Airport on October 19 bound for Melbourne with 16 more passengers than had been advised to the pilots, meaning it was 1,328kg heavier than the weight used to calculate the take-off and landing data for the flight.

This required a recalculation of the aircraft’s landing data prior to descent into Melbourne.

“The ATSB has commenced an investigation into these two aircraft loading events, which will include interviews with the flight and ground operations crews; a review of the Jetstar internal procedures regarding aircraft loading; [and] a review of preventative- and recovery-type risk controls for aircraft loading,” the ATSB said.

The ATSB investigation was expected to be completed in October 2016.

Separately, Australia’s Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) has also launched its own probe into the two Jetstar flights, which would run in parallel to the ATSB’s investigation and focus on “regulatory compliance and relevant ongoing safety of flight issues”.

“This investigation is focusing on the root causes of the passenger loading errors, relevant systems and processes and Jetstar’s subsequent actions,” CASA said in a statement.

“The travelling public can be assured CASA will take all appropriate actions to ensure Jetstar maintains robust and appropriate systems and processes to ensure passenger loading mistakes do not recur.

Jetstar said it was assisting the ATSB with its investigation.

“Since these incidents took place in October, we have put additional measures in place to check our flights have been loaded correctly and that aircraft weight and balance is properly accounted for,” Jetstar told the ABC.

“We’ve had no flights operate with this type of error since we introduced these measures.”

CASA said it was “overseeing the changes Jetstar have made in relation to passenger loading and aircraft weight and balance following the October incidents”.

http://australianaviation.com.au/201...ous-incidents/