Sydney's Second Airport

[Jethro H]

If Richmond is going to be same concept that Badgery's Creek was to be, the current 7000' runway is long enough and amount of foggy mornings is the same at both locations. ILS is only currently on 28 at Richmond.
Only 15km 280 degrees from Richmond, Kurrajong Heights peaks at about 650 metres.

As in previous plans that Hawkesbury City Council showed some years ago, a 10000' North-South Runway could be built but would require changing the Railway, Hawkesbury Valley Way, Blacktown Road and acquiring some private and uni land.

But it is expected (like every other location) there would be a large amount of protest of residents north and south of Richmond, more so south within the Penrith LGA who strongly protested about Badgery's.

One assumes it will be run by MAp as per the Airports Act.

It depends what the Government wants out of a Second Airport?

[Nigel C]

Originally Posted by Jethro H

It depends what the Government wants out of a Second Airport?

Time on the opposition benches???

[Craig Sandford]

Originally Posted by Adam P.

So what's the solution? I don't know. Richmond appears to be a resource with potential, but would need some upgrading to handle intercontinental flights (runway isn't very long). The question also remains of how you would split up traffic to each airport. Restrict SYD to International flights only, and send domestics and regionals to RIC? Good in theory, but remember that many passengers are transferring to other flights... especially off the regional services, some for international connections. Separating these into different airports that are geographically far apart may not be so productive.

Tokyo, Seoul and Taipei all use a model that has the main International airport located 70+ kms away from the city centre, and a Domestic airport close to the CBD.

For Narita (main Tokyo Int airport), there are high speed, express and local trains that run into the CBD. The express trains connect at a station that has a monorail to Haneda (Dom Airport). There is a non-stop bus that runs along the motorways that between the two airports (approx 95kms). The same bus company offers buses to TCAT (Tokyo City Air Terminal) which sits above a subway station. There are a number of bus companies offering transport to major Hotels and suburban areas. There are some Domestic flights from Narita to major cities, and Haneda handles a few international commuter flights (to Gimpo in Seoul).

In Seoul, Incheon is the main International airport, about 75kms from Central Seoul. There are a number of bus companies offering cheap transport to major hotels, KCAT (similar idea to TCAT) and to Gimpo (Dom Airport). Incheon also has a few domestic flights, and of course Gimpo has the flights to Haneda.

In Taipei, Taoyuan (Int airport - 70kms from CBD) doesn't have easy public transport options, but the freeway runs all the way in. Songshan (Dom Airport) is in the CBD area, so you can get there for less than $5 in a taxi. Although the "new" high speed train between Taipei and Kaohsiung may remove the attractiveness of domestic flights.

Of course there are downsides. I allow 8 hours hotel to hotel travelling between Tokyo and Seoul when using Narita / Incheon for a flight about the same distance as MEL/BNE. But it can be done with a bit of political will and investment.

So long as they don't do a Kuala Lumpur, move the airport out 80kms and close the airport closer to the city to RPT flights. Mind you, once again, a regular high speed train from Sepang to KL Sentral isn't that painful.

[Gerard M]

I read an article in the paper this week i think from Monday, possibly tuesday that said Richmond was now likely to be the second airport. I cant remember whether it was saying it was more likely or just the same likely hood as before. If Richmond were to be made the second airport, what would be more practical...having the same sort of setup as Williamtown or just boot the RAAF out? If so, im presuming that the hercs would just go to Amberley, but isnt that getting pretty full up there despite their upgrades at the moment with the C-17s and the new tankers and aren't the super hornets going there too?

[Andrew McLaughlin]

Originally Posted by Gerard M

I read an article in the paper this week i think from Monday, possibly tuesday that said Richmond was now likely to be the second airport. I cant remember whether it was saying it was more likely or just the same likely hood as before. If Richmond were to be made the second airport, what would be more practical...having the same sort of setup as Williamtown or just boot the RAAF out? If so, im presuming that the hercs would just go to Amberley, but isnt that getting pretty full up there despite their upgrades at the moment with the C-17s and the new tankers and aren't the super hornets going there too?

Amberley will house 24 Super Hornets, four C-17s and five KC30As and a large CSG component...overall, not a large burden.

The Hercs aren't going anywhere soon. Australian Aerospace and Lockheed Martin have just been awarded the C-130J support contract, the work for which will be conducted in the old 33SQN hangar at Richmond alongside the AP-3C heavy maintenance work.

Putting political and/or noise sensitivities aside, the Hercs can co-exist with commercial traffic.

[Gerard M]

Originally Posted by Andrew McLaughlin

Amberley will house 24 Super Hornets, four C-17s and five KC30As and a large CSG component...overall, not a large burden.

The Hercs aren't going anywhere soon. Australian Aerospace and Lockheed Martin have just been awarded the C-130J support contract, the work for which will be conducted in the old 33SQN hangar at Richmond alongside the AP-3C heavy maintenance work.

Putting political and/or noise sensitivities aside, the Hercs can co-exist with commercial traffic.

That makes sense Andrew, thanks. One question i do have, i can't find an answer to this on the net anywhere, but im guessing at the moment Richmond isnt bound by the 11pm curfew, is that just Sydney? What would the curfew be like if any if it was the second airport

Also, quite frankly even if they do appoint Richmond as the second airport, i cant see the government will be any better at getting it started let alone finished than they were with the North West rail link which was meant to come out here to castle hill etc etc etc. Thats my opinion by the way not a fact..not yet anyway..

[Andrew McLaughlin]

Originally Posted by Gerard M

That makes sense Andrew, thanks. One question i do have, i can't find an answer to this on the net anywhere, but im guessing at the moment Richmond isnt bound by the 11pm curfew, is that just Sydney?

I don't think any RAAF bases are bound by curfew, however the RAAF, as a considerate citizen, usually abides by an unofficial curfew at most of its bases which are located near or within metropolitan areas.

[Jethro H]

Originally Posted by Nigel C

Time on the opposition benches???

Good point Nigel as opposition to Badgerys Creek scared the government off.... and that was from within their own party.
A North-South at Richmond would have the same the reaction as it would also point towards the Federal Seat of Lindsay... more so than Badgerys Creek.

As for curfew, only Sydney has such a ridiculous law under the SYDNEY AIRPORT CURFEW ACT 1995. But in saying that, I remember last year the XO of Richmond explain to a group of us how they are good to the community. She said that night time exercises are limited for the community as an unwritten rule.

Benefits of Richmond over a 'new' airport:
- Rail corridors in place .. just need some expansion, but much cheaper than building new.
-There was a Corridor for the North West Motorway (aka Castlereagh Freeway) by the RTA in the 1990s.
- Existing 24 hour airport with surrounding residents hoping that it would remain and use to its 24/7 operation.
- Only 50-60 km from Sydney area, nice and close but far enough away.
Canberra at about 280km from Sydney could not be counted as a second airport without spending $4b on a VFT.
- Land is there for a North South Runway of 10,000'

Disadvantages:
- only 7000' with no room to expand 28/10... towns at either end.
- fog (foggier than Canberra too!)
- North South option could be political hold up or even a stop.
- limited space for air terminal if current RAAF remains, (but if a new North South runway is built, a new terminal could be build somewhere else on that side.

[Gerard M]

Has anyone seen anything in the White paper yet as i looked at it but couldn't see anything about it but i could have been looking at the wrong one

Cheers
Gerard

[Ken K]

Gerald, the White Paper is not yet out. It should be available in the second half of the year.