The Age Article "Jetstart Flies into storm over curfew"

[Jack B]

Originally Posted by Bill S

Just do what they used to do a few years ago, have the planes go out through the heads over water all the way. Pretty much zero noise complaints that way.

But, as I always say, buy a house near the airport and I have ZERO sympathy. In any case Sydney Airport was there long before anyone that lives near it now, so tough ****ies.

reminds me of the Meadowood residents in the book "Airport". Same situation really!

[Mike S]

Last weekend i stayed a couple of nights at the Novotel at Brighton. Had real nice clear views of the Runways and Taxiways. That pleased me alot but the misses wanted more views of the bay! Hahaha!

Anyways, most of the actual noise that was made was actually due to reverse thrust. Alot of "Vibration" emits from the Reverse Thrust which actually is quite loud. The taking off, was nothing compared to this noise. Me living over in Cronulla, i cant really head this noise, so its confined to the immediate area around the airport.

Once again, you cant move to the airport and expect it to be quiet.

[Owen H]

That is very true, and I strongly hold the view that if you live near an airport you need to accept the noise, however, people moved in knowing that there is a regulation that prohibits certain takeoffs after 11pm. Many people there are happy to accept the noise during most hours, but they are fully aware there is a curfew.

It isn't fair for them to have the rules changed without compensation... it is like building a house and THEN having an airport built next door... when you moved in there was no reason to think there would be noise during those hours.

That said, I do think that a lot of the other "noise sharing" procedures are complete rubbish.

[Radi K]

Why would the captain, knowing better than anyone the implications of taking off after curfew knowingly depart? Unless ops confirmed with him before departure a dispensation had been received it's simply really poor airmanship on his behalf to knowingly depart under these conditions. Is there CASA penalties for the PIC for such an offence?

[Nigel C]

Or perhaps ops knew they didn't have dispensation but the company gave permission to get the aircraft under way as it would have been a bigger penalty (financial and schedule wise) to not have the aircraft depart?

To suggest it was poor airmanship to depart without a dispensation is, I feel, somewhat short-sighted to the number of factors that would come into play for making such a decision.

[NickN]

The Crown submits this deliberate breach, on 'company instructions'

Sounds to me as if the pilot was told to depart by the powers that be. I doubt the decision was wholly and solely his alone.

[Jon Harris]

I would have to agree with Nick...I'm pretty sure the Captain would have received direct instructions from high up in JQ - this would not have been a decision done at his sole discretion.

[Bill S]

Originally Posted by NickN

Sounds to me as if the pilot was told to depart by the powers that be. I doubt the decision was wholly and solely his alone.

I'd agree - There's no way I'd even think of departing without approval from higher-up. I came close to doing it when I was with AAI flying for Malaysian Cargo, but I made very sure that before we pushed back we would recieve no penalty for departing. I think we pushed-back just before 10:45pm local and got airborne off 16R before 11pm so it was all okay ..... but I was just covering my ****.

With the main company base being at the airport itself, I'd make very sure to get permission in writing from the Ops Manager first though.

[Greg W.]

Originally Posted by Radi K

Is there CASA penalties for the PIC for such an offence?

If the PIC disobeyed an ATC instruction, he has committed a criminal offence: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/c...8263/s100.html
Maximum fine is $5500.

However, the article indicates that the PIC had been given clearance by ATC. Thus, no offence has been committed.

[Mick F]

As has been said in the other thread, and also many times before, ATC do not police the curfew. They simply advise the pilots that a curfew is in operation, and penalties do apply.

Other than that, they must provide a normal ATC service. So a pilot taking off after curfew becomes effective, is not disobeying an ATC direction at all.

Mick