Tiger Aust Domestic grounded

[Steve S... 2]

What is the bet that Tiger Airways is not operating in Australia at this time next year.

[Andrew Johnson]

Originally Posted by Steve S... 2

What is the bet that Tiger Airways is not operating in Australia at this time next year.

When you look at prices on sites like webjet SYD/MEL/SYD for today, that will tell you why Tiger will be around for a lot longer than eg. Qantas, who will shortly be all Jetstar & mining contracts.

The public aren't completely stupid. They can see past the spin.

As there's so little difference in the product domestically these days, domestic travel for many has become a commodity.

This is why Qantas will lose & Tiger will win the leisure & small business crowd, especially as now they are concentrating on frequency on main routes & not thin routes.

[Ash W]

Andrew, take the rose coloured glasses off! Qantas will be around, and the product that they and Virgin offer is widly different from Tiger. Weather tiger is around in 1 year is debatable, but I totally agree with Steve that the chances are slim.

[Andrew Johnson]

Originally Posted by Ash W

Andrew, take the rose coloured glasses off! Qantas will be around, and the product that they and Virgin offer is widly different from Tiger. Weather tiger is around in 1 year is debatable, but I totally agree with Steve that the chances are slim.

Joyce is not just trying to scare the unions, when he says QF is on trouble, esp QF INT, although he's needs to scare the unions.

If QF INT doesn't reduce it's labour costs dramatically then it has absolutely no future.

Think I read the other day (in article about tied Thai flight attendants who were sacked for failing to turn up for work at SYD) that Thai flights attendants working for JQ get something like AUD$258/month retainer & AUD$7/hour. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Unfortunately, aviation is in global marketplace like many other industries.

If QF INT does not have more foreign crews it will not survive, it will become all JQ.

Lots of people who pay for their own tickets, will do anything to save 5 bucks these days, so TT fares will be very attractive. The interesting thing is where VC's BNE/MEL fares will fit. Can't imagine they be as cheap at TT, but will they be at JQ levels but with higher frequency. JQ will be the only carrier in & out of AVV now.

Ash, think you might have been one of those people who said Ansett will be around forever as well.

[Zac M]

Qantas will be around for a lot longer than Tiger! Tiger's reputaion is beyond help, I would tend to agree with Steve S...2, Tiger will not be around these parts this time next year.

[Andrew Johnson]

Why ?

Because a few people say so ? Hardly.

QF are in deep trouble. Every wants more pay & everyone should get pay cut.

Unions might kill QF INT before public does.

+ you forget who owns TT. Singapore Govt thru Temasek, Ryanair interests & SQ the worlds best airline by far + if TT goes down, it doesn't paint a good picture for TR.

It's the ultra LCC's who are the only ones making any real money at the moment, ie. Ryanair, Air Asia etc.

Let's face it TT have been got at.

Air Asia flew so low when coming into OOL they took roof tiles off on a number of occasions & hardly made a splash.

SIN INC will get their revenge.

[Ash W]

Andrew, you are companing Qantas INTERNATIONAL to Tiger (Domestic). Qantas domestic will be around for a few more years to come, Tiger on the other hand WILL struggle to regain what trust it had with the flying public, so is in real danger of not being around for too long.

[Zac M]

Look at Qantas' domestic operations, evry flight I have been on is full, what you are saying is Tiger is going to put Qantas out of buisness, that will never happen! Qantas have just about every major corperate and government contract in the country, sure the International is struggling a little but I can garuntee you it will last longer than Tiger, with a fleet of eight 18 flights a day is just not a viable source of income.

Think about all the money they have lost in the last two months, there is no way for them to survive. There repuation is gone.

[Jacob P]

Zac, you can't judge an airlines success based purely on the fact of PAX load. Many flights can have full PAX loads but the yield from this may still not be enough to cover costs. This is not so much the case with QF domestic but QF INTL is a prime example of this particularly SYD-LAX flights which almost always go out full and yet they struggle to make profit as the yield from the fares is so abismal. Not saying that QF DOM flights are not making money but just saying that an airlines route profitability can't be judged on Pax load factors alone.

[Andrew Johnson]

QF INT have 2 big problems:-

1) they are competing with Asian wage rates

So even with most of corporate market, QF INT is losing dough big time.

DJ is just about to grab a bigger chunk of corporate market domestically.

You (or anyone else) cannot guarantee anything.

With a lot fo QF INT flights, it must be a matter of how little can they lose, rather than make per flight. You can't keep on selling seats below cost just to fill aircraft.

Sure QF can cut services eg. SYD/LAX could go to 1/day everyday, but you can't send out 1/2 a 744 out of BNE or MEL. A few 787's right now would be very handy for QF.

When DL/VA start codesharing SYD/LAX might find that instead of 2 x 777 going out 15 minutes or so apart, some days there will only be one. This will actually help QF as DL/VA won't have to dump so many seats at a loss, but now have to contend with VC's new BNE/HNL & MEL/HNL services which should do well in DEC-JAN holiday period, especially if they have good onward connections to mainland USA, but FEB will be crunch time. Anyone can make money DEC-JAN.

Many Australians & Americans fly the likes of NZ, HA, FJ between Australia & west coast USA to save a few bucks.