Qantas suspends First class product on certain routes

[Jack B]

I believe the earlier 747-438's (1989, 1990 etc) are due to be phased out soon, so the newer 744 fleet will need to have at least some aircraft configured as 3 class, wouldn't they?

[Ash W]

Jack, Qantas have not yet annouced any specific plans for the retirement of the early build 747's.

But yes there will always be a need for a 3 class 747.

[Andrew Ewen]

Hi Andrew, please refrain from quoting the whole previous post in your post, it is not necessary, thank you - mod


correct -there will always be a need for a 3 class a/c : Y ;Y+ ; J

Now that QF have begun the move to lie-flat beds in J it will become increasingly harder for companies to justify the extra cost for F .

Yes , there will always be a small number of individuals who are prepared to pay F , but the question becomes at what point is that number too small to justify the additional costs to QF of operating an F cabin ?

Not only have a large number of airlines discontinued F as mentioned by previous posters, but many of those who have retained it offer it on only select routes and with far fewer seats in those cabins than ever before ( just as an example AF now only offer F cabins on 777s with 4 seats on the -200ER and 8 seats on the -300ER , I believe that on the A380 they are going to offer a 9 seat F cabin - there is no F on the A330 / A340 or 744 fleets and even some of the 777-300ERs do not have F - and this is a carrier that doesnt even have lie-flat seats in J to undermine their F market)

I suspect that the newer 744s will gradually find themselves converted to Y , Y+ and J for the remainder of their service life with the old first generation sloped Skybeds being scrapped and replaced by the flat version now available on QFs A380s . Any route that can still justify F will be served by the A380

[Ash W]

Originally Posted by NickN

The beginning of the end..... Qantas just took the first step toward becoming a LCC.

Nick sometimes stop and think before you write.

Qantas are clearly adjusting their product to suit the market. Simple as that.

It does not spell the end of their business model, if anything it shows they have the flexibility to adjust to changing market conditions within the existing model.

Now if the news was Qantas replacing those routes with Jetstar you MIGHT, repeat MIGHT have a valid point. But the point above is pure un-informed and ill thought rot.

[Mike W]

In this week's Fleetbuzz Editorial, he talks about Air New Zealand (specifically) and others who've moved away from the first class product whle still maintaining three classes with the introduction of Premium Economy. This is also alongside discussion about Air NZ's new advert campaign "Nothing to Hide"

http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/

Nothing To Hide

Air New Zealand’s new advert brazenly claiming that its fares have “nothing to hide” certainly is an eye-catcher - in part down to the artwork that had been painstakingly applied to various members of its staff and also because the carrier may also have the innovative edge on its other full-service rivals.

Continues

[NickN]

Now if the news was Qantas replacing those routes with Jetstar you MIGHT, repeat MIGHT have a valid point

Ash why don't you just give us a quick rundown of the routes QF has already sacrificed to JQ.......

It's not ill thought rot, it's a sign Qantas is being reduced to a shadow of its former self through increased competition and that JQ will eventually become the primary income earner for the group. Eventually what choice will they have but to go low cost or perish?

They may retain a few Intl routes but what good will that do?

[Kelvin R]

I must be flying a different QF than the one you are talking about Nick as the majority of my domestic flights have only a few spare seats on them. I do 2 to 3 return trips a month and have done so for the last 10 years. So I do @ 100 sectors a year on QF all in. I have flown through 9/11 and SARS, as well as the AN collapse (on QF). I don't share your thoughts as someone who gets to choose which airline I fly as long as QF fly to my destination at or near the time I need to go and are within range of a DJ or JQ fare I will always take the QF option.

This is backed by the last set of earnings released by QF which showed that Domestic, QFLink and Jetstar were all holding up well and it is only international that is suffering. Like others have mentioned when the GFC is forgotten in 18mths time premium travel will return. What will happen however is some organisations will stick with PE and J, others will return to First and some who have been flying PE and J due to the cheap fares that used to fly Y will remain in those premium cabins.

The two brand strategy appears to be working well for QF, the only error I can see is changing NZ domestic over to JQ has sent a number of trans tasman flyers like myself into the arms of NZ for this travel. Likewise the delay in A380 and 787 aircraft have made the QF Y product uncompetitive with the likes of NZ, EK, EY and others.

QF is not without its challenges, you only need to pick up a copy of AFR to see that however the call of death of QF and the rise of JQ is at best early and at worst misguided and factually incorrect.

[Daniel F]

If you argue that by removing F class means Qantas are heading towards the LCC model, does that mean when Qantas took out Y seats (and not J seats) and replaced them with premium economy, they were taking steps to become a business-only airline?

[NickN]

however the call of death of QF and the rise of JQ is at best early and at worst misguided and factually incorrect.

The facts are..... QF have handed over routes to JQ because QF could not manage them based on their own full service model.

QF have now handed over NZ domestic ops completely to JQ.

JQ are growing ever bigger in the Intl market while QF cut back flights and capacity.

QF are going to run a loss this half, JQ will be profitable.

Plus JQ will now operate into YMML to compete with DJ and TT so their own subsidiary will eat away at their pax. Will businesses still send their staff with QF if they can buy that seat cheaper with JQ? Its a 1 hour flight a meal or snack from QF wont make a difference.

I understand your a loyal QF supporter, thats great, QF needs people like you, you are what keeps QF going.

Moving forward however it is highly likely QF will face even harder challenges than those being faced currently.

[Daniel F]

Originally Posted by NickN

Will businesses still send their staff with QF if they can buy that seat cheaper with JQ? Its a 1 hour flight a meal or snack from QF wont make a difference.

So why aren't business customers flocking over to DJ at the moment?