More than missed approach, missed airport!

[Trevor Sinclair]

An interesting one here from this morning's Tele.
http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/...014090,00.html

[Mark T]

And this one from Delta:

http://www.jetphotos.net/news/index....&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

[Blair M]

It's beyond me to a certain extent that in this modern age we continue to have such major 'incidents'. Especially with modern airlines that have rigorous crew competency training mechanisms and organisational factors in place. Let alone the heavy regulation from the FAA/CASA etc.

Without pre-empting the investigations, it would seem obvious fatigue was a key driver in both instances. I think this will become the biggest killer moving forward in the industry. The aircraft are getting safer, technology can do a lot, but it can’t wake you up when you’re tired. The recent EK A345 incident was another example. I’m sure there are many more.

The 767 taxiway incident reminded me of the SQ 744 accident in TPE.

[Blair M]

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N...135Z/KSAN/KMSP

Hmm

[Grahame Hutchison]

Nice little track on Flightaware, they should send the pilots the fuel bill.

[Gareth Forwood]

Originally Posted by Blair M

...technology can do a lot, but it can’t wake you up when you’re tired.

Actually now it can - the 2010 Mercedes E Class will have a system in place that wakes you if it senses you begin to doze off - http://reviews.carreview.com/blog/ne...rs-to-wake-up/. However the financial cost of adding that to a fleet of aircraft would be ridiculously high...

[Mick F]

As Blair says, technology is becoming greater in the modern cockpit. The amount of information available now through the complex avionics now contained in not only airliners, but even new GA aircraft (right down to small recreational aircraft) is phenomonal.

However...... One of the things in aviation that can never be changed (at least in the modern era), only minimised to an extent, is human factors. Whilst ever you have a human in control of an aircraft, be it in maintenance or in the cockpit, or even behind the console at air traffic control, you will always have the risk of something going wrong.

Human factors is the biggest contributor towards aircraft accidents and incidents.

Probably more so in the last 10-20 years than any other time, there has been a very big focus on this area of aviation. Crew Resource Management, Fatigue Management, Safety Management Systems (which covers basically everything) are a normal part of modern airlines and general aviation operators these days. There are extensive studies constantly being undertaken on human factors, with some interesting results that can assist us with learning more about not only human factors as a whole, but also ourselves in everything we do.

Mick

[Chris Griffiths]

Originally Posted by Gareth Forwood

However the financial cost of adding that to a fleet of aircraft would be ridiculously high...

Would it be that expensive, a manufacturer like Mercedes putting this capability in a car such as an E Class, the cost would likely be less than a couple of hundred dollars per vehicle.

For Delta/NW with approx 450 aircraft that would amount to $90,000.
OK certifying and installing something in a commercial airliner is not going to happen for $200/unit.
Adding price escalation for certification and aerospace supplier price gouging and say $10,000/unit. 450 aircraft is going to run something like $4,500,000 hardly a showstopper if shown to be of real benefit.

[Adam G]

Some aircraft have systems in place that essentially alarm if the crew don't touch specific things in the flight deck for a specified amount of time - in the B777 for example it occurs after 20 minutes.

There are also procedures in most airlines for cabin crew to contact flight crew every 20 or so minutes to ensure they are still awake/alive.

Given pilots and cabin crew would normally at minimum have a interphone discussion (but normally a face to face contact) around the TOD point it's strange they over flew whether due sleep or "heated discussion" by so far.

[Gareth Forwood]

The whole thing reminds me of this thread all over again... Pilots fall asleep due to early start, sleep disorder