Aircraft midair in south-west Sydney

[Tony P]

Did my Commercial flight test with Ken Andrews in the early 90s. Surprised and glad he is still kicking along. Top bloke. Top Pilot.

[Mick F]

No need for a "mini TCAS" (it'd never work). Pilots just need to learn to look outside and scan for traffic, and have situational awareness when they listen on the radio.

Unfortunately it was just a tragic accident. At the moment, there's probably little they can do to avoid this particular incident again (as Nigel said, it's very very rare they occur anyway).

Mick

[Sarah C]

Originally Posted by Tony P

Did my Commercial flight test with Ken Andrews in the early 90s. Surprised and glad he is still kicking along. Top bloke. Top Pilot.

And sadly some of the news outlets and the general public are jumping to conclusions, saying 89 is too old to fly

[Tony P]

You'll probably find it is a high wing v low wing blind spot accident with position reports out of position. Speculation yes, but with the nose damage on the liberty, looks like a likely scenario.

Pilots are taught to look out, especially near reporting points. So I don't think they need to "learn". It's a basic part of training.

[Tony P]

Originally Posted by Sarah C

And sadly some of the news outlets and the general public are jumping to conclusions, saying 89 is too old to fly

Well if he can pass the strict medical checks they have to do at that age, I'd have complete confidence going for a ride with him.

[Nigel C]

Mini TCAS....hmmm...light aircraft can hardly do with any more weight penalties!

I agree with Mick's sentiments.

[Tony P]

The mods work fast around here! good work.

[Hugh Jarse]

How can you exclude a device that HELPS situational awareness?

Clearly, see and avoid FAILED on this occasion. When I was working in YPPF way back in the early 90's they had TCAD fitted to the TB10's.

These TCAD devices saved my skin on a couple of occasions and yes, we were keeping a good lookout.

The weight penalty argument is a furphy. It's a small piece of solid state equipment!

This sad event is yet another confirmation that see and avoid on its own is flawed, particularly in busy terminal areas.

Those of you who disbelieve me need to read the BASI report here: http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/2005/pdf/See_and_Avoid.pdf

[Nigel C]

Hi Hugh,

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for safety in the skies, and I certainly wasn't 'excluding' a piece of equipment that would help.

My comment on weight penalties was made in jest. I remember when I was flying (it seems so long ago...) discussing with my instructor the weight penalties of various equipment that could be added to aircraft (from speed kits to air conditioning units etc), how that affects fuel, pax and baggage loads and why many training aircraft generally aren't fitted with too many extras.

Perhaps I should have thrown an emoticon on the end of it? I apologise if you read it differently to how I intended it.

Cheers
Nigel


Out of curiosity, what would be the cost of a basic TCAD system?

[Adam P.]

<Devil's advocate>
TCAS/D in GAAP control zones such as Bankstown, with aeroplanes on opposite base for parallel runways, not to mention more than one aeroplane on the final leg of the circuit at the same time, and all the others taking off...

My point being, the damn thing would never shut up!!
</Devil's advocate>