Virgin flight declares emergency after fog diversion

[Rob R]

No problems Mick,

The biggest problem with aviation/airports in Australia is we are still stuck in the 1960's.

Only one airport in Austalia has an ILS that is CAT3! Almost every RPT jet aircraft is capable of doing auto lands and the flight crews are trained for them, but the airports don't have the equipment, as the owners prefer to build car parks and shopping cerntres AKA terminals.

We have some of the most inaccurate aviation weather forecasts, not having a go the guys doing the forecasts, they are like the pilots, the last line of defence. The government keeps cutting the BOM budget and staff.

[Mick F]

Completely agree Rob. The BOM guys/ladies do the best they can with the tools they have. Unfortunately we just don't have a government that see's the importance in putting money towards weather forecasting and other technologies.

I've had the unfortunate circumstance where I've been conducting missed approaches because the weather is that bad, then after a while the BOM eventually updates the forecast to what's happening!

Mick

[Radi K]

I think there is more to this story than a media beat up.

Rob, the facts are that the forecast changed after departure, I 100% agree. The crew would have been made aware of this and would have re-considered their options in terms of diversion to alternate aerodromes.

According to another forum, several other aircraft diverted back to dep aerodrome for more fuel etc. Another Virgin B737 conducted an autoland in ADL, getting in right on the minima. Also the following was posted:

I was on that flight
Things I remember

Cockpit said high headwinds to Adelaide
Cockpit said we were Diverting from Adelaide to Mildura for fuel and to wait for fog to lift at Adelaide
I recall one go-around with ground visible ( certainly wasn't a prec.. Large thrust and pitch change ) not saying there wasn't one.. Just didn't notice it.
Cockpit advised that next approach is a landing and he will call brace as it may be bumpy landing.
On final(?) captain called brace brace
Followed by front cabin crew repeatedly yelling "heads down stay down" until we had slowed down on rwy

Below is a picture from onboard after landing:


They crew got caught out and it is a "Serious Incident" for a reason. As you can see the weather in Mildura wasn't flash. See this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeODQm1__D4

It will be an interesting report I'm sure.

[Rob R]

Radi K

True there is more to the story and this wil come out over time. However the media (and those on here and other forums) have been focusing on Virgin, with not one media outlet asking the most obvious question.

The Qantas aircraft was 5 -6 mins behind the Virgin aircraft when the left the Adeaide area, yet the Qantas aircaft landed first. So why did the Qantas aircraft land first, if as everyone is saying the Virgin aircraft was low on fuel? Both aircraft were B737-800 and the average speed would be 8 - 9 miles a minute. There is no way the Qantas aircaft could have overtaken the Virgin aircraft Enroute to Mildura and this is confirmed by the information on Flightradar 24, which shows the Qantas aircraft behind the Virgin all the way. If you look at Flightaware for both aircraft you can see via Lat and long where each aircraft commenced tracking torwards Mildura. The time of when each aircraft started tracking east is also displayed. The data also showed Qantas carried out numerous holding patterns in the Adelaide area.

So once again ask yourself the question why did Qantas land first at Mildura? If it was clear skies when Virgin arrived, why did they hold if they were so tight on fuel and let Qantas land?

[Rob R]

The ATSB have updated their investigation to include the Qantas 737;

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...-2013-100.aspx

Update: 2 July*2013
The ATSB is continuing its investigation into the circumstances surrounding the diversion of a B737 aircraft, registered VH-YIR (YIR) and operated by Virgin Australia, to Mildura, Victoria on 18*June 2013. The reduced visibility at Adelaide Airport, South Australia that led to the diversion also affected a number of other aircraft, including another B737. This aircraft, registered VH-VYK and operated by Qantas, was en route from Sydney, New South Wales to Adelaide before also diverting to Mildura.

As a result of its increased understanding of events, the ATSB has expanded the scope of its investigation to examine both of these diversions and their broader context. The investigation title has been amended to reflect this expanded investigation focus, which will include examination of the:
forecasting and distribution of weather information by the Bureau of Meteorology
provision of weather and operational information by Airservices Australia to all aircraft that were affected by the reduced visibility at Adelaide
provision of weather and operational information to those aircraft by the operators
influence on the flight crews’ decision making of that information flow.
A preliminary factual report into the circumstances of the occurrence is anticipated by 18 July 2013, and the final report is expected to be completed within 12 months.

[D Chan]

Originally Posted by Rob R

No problems Mick,

The biggest problem with aviation/airports in Australia is we are still stuck in the 1960's.

Only one airport in Austalia has an ILS that is CAT3! Almost every RPT jet aircraft is capable of doing auto lands and the flight crews are trained for them, but the airports don't have the equipment, as the owners prefer to build car parks and shopping cerntres AKA terminals.

quite well summed up there Rob -if aviation is so critical to Australia we really have the right to question why we are in this state. The political parties harp about nation building and yet they overlook critical infrastructure like this - and they continue to cost our airlines dearly (as the recent SYD fogs have proven). What's more critical however is if this situation is not improved one day it could lead to a high capacity RPT aircraft running out of fuel due fog and this is not something that should be left to chance and luck

[Chris B.]

D, I highly doubt that at this day and age that airline crews are going to let their aircraft run out of fuel. They will either divert with their minimum reserves in tact or declare a fuel emergency and most likely use the autoland functions of the aircraft to land through the fog.

[Nigel C]

Originally Posted by D Chan

....The political parties harp about nation building and yet they overlook critical infrastructure like this - and they continue to cost our airlines dearly (as the recent SYD fogs have proven)...

Who do you propose should pay for the upgrades and subsequent maintenance?

Government through taxes?
Airports through passenger charges or council rates (depending on who or what owns the airport)?
Airlines through ticket sales? .
Combination of all of the above?
Other?

And what airports do and don't qualify for the upgrades?

[Mick F]

And what airports do and don't qualify for the upgrades?

I know it's quite a complex issue Nige, however putting my expertise in here, I think it should be a minimum of a Cat 1 ILS at all controlled airports. Then, the need for infrastructure like this is then placed around the countryside strategically based upon services available at that airport, proximity to any other airfields that don't need infrastructure like that.

But, at the end of the day, realistically, GPS will replace ILS's (or at least provide the same sort of precision) and they'll have these approaches everywhere. Just look at the RNP approaches.

Mick

[Brad M]

it's fairly obvious why everyone was told to brace...
the aircraft had to get down then and there , be it hard or on the grass.
it wouldn't of made it around again for another shot at it.....