QF 72 Diverted to Learmonth

[Rhys Xanthis]

Originally Posted by Nathan Long

I'm not sure on the loop time on the FDR on the A330, but isn't there a danger in incidents like these that the time taken for the aircraft to land is long enough to overwrite the data from the incident?

Yes thats entirely possible, but i'm not sure of the time either, and a google search hasn't yielded anything.

[damien b]

Originally Posted by Nathan Long

I'm not sure on the loop time on the FDR on the A330, but isn't there a danger in incidents like these that the time taken for the aircraft to land is long enough to overwrite the data from the incident?

Modern DFDR's can handle over 25 hours of flight time so any data would still be on the DFDR from this flight and probably previous flights.

As for the irregularity being reported by the ATSB - it wouldn't be unheard of due to the information coming into the main computer and that information possibly becoming corrupt for some reason giving the 300ft climb.

As for the rapid 6,000ft decent/drop being reported Thats a huge drop.

I have seen main computers 'freeze' on aircraft allowing for some weird disrepencies at times and the best the manufacturers came up with was a full memory capacity. On one occasion all four MFD's froze, leaving the crew unaware of their current location/situation for 30 odd minutes until they noted a moving map had not moved for some time.

[Nathan Long]

Thanks Damien. I recall that with the China Airlines 747SP incident that the data on the FDR on the barrel roll was overwritten because of the time it took for the aircraft to get on the ground. It's good to see modern technology overcoming this problem.

[David Ramsay]

Media release on the ATSB web site

MEDIA RELEASE

2008/40
Qantas Airbus Incident Media Conference
08 October 2008

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau was advised yesterday afternoon of an occurrence involving an Airbus A330-300 aircraft while on a flight from Singapore to Perth, operating as Qantas Flight 72. The aircraft, which had 303 passengers and 10 crew on board, was in normal level flight at 37,000 ft about 110 nautical miles north of Carnarvon and 80 nautical miles from Learmonth near Exmouth in north-western Australia, when the pilots received electronic centralised aircraft monitoring messages in the cockpit relating to some irregularity with the aircraft's elevator control system. The aircraft is reported to have departed level flight and climbed approximately 300 ft, during which time the crew had initiated non-normal checklist/response actions. The aircraft is then reported to have abruptly pitched nose-down. During this sudden and significant nose-down pitch, a number of passengers, cabin crew and loose objects were thrown about the aircraft cabin, primarily in the rear of the aircraft, resulting in a range of injuries to some cabin crew and passengers.

The crew made a PAN PAN emergency broadcast to air traffic control, advising that they had experienced flight control computer problems and that some people had been injured, and they requested a clearance to divert to and track direct to Learmonth. A few minutes later the crew declared a MAYDAY and advised ATC of multiple injures including broken bones and lacerations. The aircraft landed at about 1530 local time, about 40 minutes after the start of the event.

The ATSB understand that there were 14 people with serious but not life threatening injuries, which included concussion and broken bones who were taken by air ambulance to Perth. In addition, up to 30 other people attended hospital with possible concussion, minor lacerations and fractures, with up to a further 30 or so people with minor bruises and stiff necks etc who did not need to attend hospital. However, these casualty figures are subject to further clarification and confirmation. All passengers have been now been transported to Perth. Given the nature of injuries, the occurrence is defined as an accident in accordance with the International Civil Aviation Organization definition.

The ATSB has initiated a safety investigation and two investigators from the ATSB's Perth office travelled to Learmonth yesterday evening and commenced initial on-site investigation activities, which included securing the aircraft's Flight Data and Cockpit Voice recorders. A further five ATSB investigators are due to arrive in Learmonth early this afternoon Western Australia time

An officer from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority with a type rating on the A330 has joined the ATSB team. In addition, the Bureau Enquetes-Accidents, or BEA of France, the French counterpart of the ATSB has assigned an accredited representative as the State of Design and Manufacture of the aircraft, to provide assistance to the ATSB investigation. An investigator who is a flight control specialist from the aircraft manufacturer Airbus, is currently travelling to Australia and will also assist the investigation team.

It is obviously very early in the investigation and too soon to draw any conclusions as to the specific cause of this accident. The ATSB investigation will explore all aspects of the operation of the aircraft, including through detailed examination of the Flight Data and Cockpit Voce recordings, aircraft systems and maintenance history, Air Traffic Control radar and audio recordings, and weather conditions. The ATSB will also be conducting a range of interviews with the pilots and cabin crew, and will also speak with passengers to examine the cabin safety aspects.

It is always difficult to predict how long an investigation such as this will take. While it is likely to take some number of months, the ATSB will release a Preliminary Factual report within about 30 days. Furthermore, should any critical safety issues emerge that require urgent attention, the ATSB will immediately bring such issues to the attention of the relevant authorities who are best placed to take prompt action to address those issues.


Without pre-empting any findings in relation to cabin safety issues and the wearing of seatbelts, this accident serves as a reminder to all people who travel by air of the importance of keeping seatbelts fastened at all times when seated in an aircraft.


Media Contact: George Nadal: 1800 020 616

[Tony G]

Originally Posted by Nathan Long

I'm not sure on the loop time on the FDR on the A330, but isn't there a danger in incidents like these that the time taken for the aircraft to land is long enough to overwrite the data from the incident?

The herc FDR can record up to the last 25hrs of data. I am sure civi aircraft are very similar. We also have other data retreival methods we can use to determine everything that has happened throught the flight. eg take off/landing times, cautions and warngings that occur, engine data etc etc.

Again i am not sure what sort of data retrieval devices airliners have besides the DFDR and CVR, but i am sure they would have the data stored to deterime what happenned at the time of the incident.

[Chris Griffiths]

Originally Posted by NickN

Nick,
A 300 feet climb is a relatively minor altitude change which I doubt would directly result in the engines stalling.

Are you perhaps displaying a lack of knowledge here?
You seem to be confusing the different types of stall that may affect an aircraft.

Cheers

[Tim C]

Originally Posted by Christian Dietzel

It could never have been an A320 as this has only a seat capacity of 148 passengers. It was an A330-300 and it carried 302 Passengers.

Thanks for that was bugging me for a while!

[Villy Curtin]

Hi,

A 300ft climb may be relatively minor change in altitude but a potential stall (not engines rather airflow envelope over surfaces) can occur if there is a simultaneous significant loss in airspeed at FL390.

I have been scheduled on at least 2 flights in memory where the a/c (all QF A333's) have gone U/S and the same reason given for both has been a problem with the Flight Control Unit. Now whether this event is the manifestation of such issues inflight it is something that has certainly struck a chord with me.

Regards,
VC

[Philip Argy]

Not sure about the A330, but the B744 only has 2 hours of CVR compared to 25 hours of FDR, and if the CVR is not powered off after landing, there is a likelihood of its contents being overwritten by ground crew conversations, as partially happened in Manilla.

I think the newer solid state devices such as would be on the A380 have greater capacity but I'm not aware of the A330 situation; I'm pretty sure it was one of the earliest solid state recorders but it was circa 1993 from memory and the technology has moved on a lot in that time.

[Robert S]

Originally Posted by Philip Argy

Not sure about the A330, but the B744 only has 2 hours of CVR compared to 25 hours of FDR, and if the CVR is not powered off after landing, there is a likelihood of its contents being overwritten by ground crew conversations, as partially happened in Manilla.

The ATSB's ongoing investigation into the Manila accident is meant to include "a review of the operator’s procedures for preserving a CVR recording following a serious incident or non-catastrophic accident."

Even though that's ongoing, hopefully one way or another the CVR in this latest accident has been preserved.