V Australia: PER-LON and SYD-NYC nonstop?

[James P]

What are the health implications for pax, sitting in their confined spaces for 16 hours? Surely a recipe for DVTs? There's no way I would want to be flying for 16 hours straight! Despite the extra time it took, I liked the days when there was a refueling stop in Singapore and another in Bahrain when flying to Europe.
What about similar OHSW for pilot/co pilot and cabin staff? Wouldn't they run out of hours at 16 hours non-stop?
What other issues does a 16 hour flight raise?
What do those who work in the industry think?

[Ash W]

Originally Posted by James P

What about similar OHSW for pilot/co pilot and cabin staff? Wouldn't they run out of hours at 16 hours non-stop?

That have two sets of crew on these ultra long haul flights to get around this issue. The downside is it makes it more expensive.

Cost is the major reason you don't see ultra long haul flights. The aircraft that would operate these flights are generally smaller, so less passengers and to pay the additional costs you need to have a large and full premium (business/first) class cabins.

[Mike W]

Originally Posted by Gareth Forwood

Very exciting news if this is true.

I agree. What a refreshing change from all the doom and gloom going on the in the industry at the moment.

^ As for the two crew issue, I think they use two sets on all long haul flights anyway so no news there.

[Philip Argy]

SYD-JFK would be very attractive, as would non-stop to a number of European cities, such as Frankfurt. Whilst Changi is OK (or will be when the current renovations are completed), the lounge is getting pretty tired now and the stopovers getting shorter. The prospect of shaving five hours off a trip to Europe is also attractive. On my recent trip to Geneva the transit through Heathrow was an unwelcome burden, even though I chose that routing (rather than going via Frankfurt) to maximise my A380 flight time.

What is the longest viable range for a fully laden A380 right now and what are some cities that could take us to out of SYD?

[Michael Mak]

Originally Posted by Arthur T

Suggested Australian Ports for Direct B77L London service:
AYQ/CBR/SYD/MEL

AYQ = Ayers Rock Airport?

[Arthur T]

Re Michael: AYQ = Uluru

A few advantages for that:

1. Airport is small enough that passengers can pass through custom in a more relaxed but quick, efficient manner (think maybe better than those @ SYD) that transfer time can be as comparable as changing flights at Singapore, Hong Kong etc but they eventually can save lots of time passing customs.

2. Advantage for Virgin Blue to launch Central Australia services to beat Tiger and Qantas

3. Uluru is located in the middle of the Island, hence flight times to any other ports in the coast will be comparable with direct from Singapore without significant detour

4. Marketing purposes: How good that will be if passengers can fly to the symbol of Australia directly from Europe?

[Mike W]

Originally Posted by Andrew

They don't operate 2 sets of crews on long haul services. They rotate rest between the crew.

My bad then. What is the fight timeframe then when two crews must be used? ...or so far it isn't unless you're flying from Perth to London... or Singapore to New York?

[Daniel F]

Originally Posted by Arthur T

1. Airport is small enough that passengers can pass through custom in a more relaxed but quick, efficient manner (think maybe better than those @ SYD) that transfer time can be as comparable as changing flights at Singapore, Hong Kong etc but they eventually can save lots of time passing customs.

Just because the airport is small, doesn't mean that passengers can pass through customs any quicker. The number of customs officers is proportional to the number of passengers going through the airport. Do you think they're going to put as many customs officers out at AYQ as they do at SYD?

2. Advantage for Virgin Blue to launch Central Australia services to beat Tiger and Qantas

So from operating no flights to AYQ they suddenly need to start operating from most capital cities to services the V Australia flights?

3. Uluru is located in the middle of the Island, hence flight times to any other ports in the coast will be comparable with direct from Singapore without significant detour

It means flight times to any other port is a good 3 to 4 hours! And any delays to the incoming V Australia flight means you have to hold all the DJ services to meet those passengers... or put them up in very expensive hotels in AYQ! If anyone wants to see a monopoly at work, there's no better place to see it than at AYQ.

4. Marketing purposes: How good that will be if passengers can fly to the symbol of Australia directly from Europe?

Uluru is the symbol of Australia? No disrepect to Uluru, but I think that won't be the first in the list of spots to visit for first-time visitors to Australia.

[D Chan]

Originally Posted by Michael Mak

AYQ = Ayers Rock Airport?

and to think an airline can fill any aircraft with over 100 pax, all of whom after spending 17 hours in the air to arrive straight into the middle of the desert in the middle of nowhere.. there's zero logic in doing that. It might work in a game but not in real life.

Couple of points / observations & thoughts:
- VA is engaging in tactics to deliberately target the Qantas Group (e.g. first with LAX, then with Joburg, Fiji, Phuket) - what is more interesting is they are discussing this idea with the media so early. Typically bold of them to raise a proposal which is subject to: 'regulatory approval, aircraft orders and availability, slots etc.'
- Non-stop service (both directions) will not be economically viable in at least another 10 yrs time. What I mean is that within the next 10 yrs with the technology that is available to airlines, to fly such a route they will charge a premium for the service and only the rich will be able to afford to fly non-stop
- As we have seen before with the SQ A345 they may be configed with first and business product only. I highly doubt it will have an economy cabin
- In 15-20 years time airlines will be able to fly direct to Europe from Australia
- Timing - by 2011 the world economy should hopefully have recovered from the downturn and there may be enough business traffic to sustain the route, esp given the mining/resource boom in WA.
- what does LON-PER mean for people living in the east coast? are there any real advantages of stopping / transferring at PER instead of SIN, BKK, HKG etc.? Probably little to none?
- Here is the reality with these ultra-long haul flights - we're burning more fuel just to carry enough fuel to enable the aircraft to fly non-stop.

[Ash W]

Originally Posted by Philip Argy

SYD-JFK would be very attractive, as would non-stop to a number of European cities, such as Frankfurt.
...
What is the longest viable range for a fully laden A380 right now and what are some cities that could take us to out of SYD?

Non stop to European cities would work with smaller aircraft, provided the passengers are willing to pay the higher costs of direct flights with said smaller aircraft. As for the range of an A380, think it is maybe irrelevant as the A380 is a hub to hub aircraft and all major hub points outside of Australia are currently achievable.