Canberra Bomber Found

[Mick.B]

From Defence Media

WRECKAGE OF RAAF AIRCRAFT FOUND IN VIETNAM

Minister for Defence Science and Personnel, Hon. Warren Snowdon MP today announced that an Australian Investigation Team believes it has found the aircraft flown by the last two Australian Defence Force members missing in Vietnam.

Flying Officer Michael Herbert and Pilot Officer Robert Carver disappeared on 3 November 1970. They had conducted a bombing mission and were returning to base when their Canberra bomber was lost without trace.

“The Australian Defence Investigation Team are confident they have located the Royal Australian Air Force Canberra bomber wreckage in thick jungle in an extremely rugged, remote and sparsely populated area of Quang Nam Province, Vietnam, near the Laotian border,” said Mr Snowdon.

Mr Snowdon said the Defence team has spent a week in the isolated province gaining information and hiking in to the wreck site. The recovery team deployed to the site by foot on Wednesday 15 April. While no human remains were found, a number of military artifacts have been discovered including a club badge which was unique to RAAF’s No. 2 Squadron.

“These brave airmen gave their lives in the service of their nation, and locating the crash site is an important step in accounting for them, “ said Mr Snowdon.

“Relatives of the two crewmen have been advised of the discovery, and Air Force will continue to keep them updated.”

Mr Snowdon praised the work of the DSTO in using innovative modeling techniques in order to refine the area of interest, plus the exhaustive and skilled research and expertise of the Army History Unit in supporting the Air Force investigation.

“Invaluable assistance has also been given by a number of former North Vietnamese and Viet Cong soldiers and their commanders as well as many local villagers, and their compassion and commitment in assisting us is humbling,” Mr Snowdon said.

Mr Snowdon said the next step would be a thorough archaeological dig which will confirm whether there are any human remains at the crash site.

[Bob C]

This Canberra bomber was lost over 38 years ago in thick jungle in an extremely rugged, remote and sparsely populated area of Quang Nam Province, Vietnam, near the Laotian border, according to reports.

I find it amazing that the wreckage has been found after all this time and I wonder how long its location might have been known to the former North Vietnamese soldiers, Viet Cong and local villagers who assisted the RAAF and Army personel in locating the wreckage of A84-231.

I also wonder what identified it as a RAAF aircraft (only two were lost over Vietnam) when thousands of US aircarft were lost.

[Andrew McLaughlin]

Originally Posted by Bob C

I also wonder what identified it as a RAAF aircraft (only two were lost over Vietnam) when thousands of US aircarft were lost.

The USAF didn't operate the Canberra - only the RAAF did in Vietnam. The USAF did operate the Martin B-57 which was a heavily modified Canberra but very different in a few key areas.

[Bob C]

I didn't mention in my post whether or not the USAF operated Canberras in Vietnam and don't see how it's relevant to the finding of the missing RAAF Canberra B20.

What I was asking was what wreckage would have identified it as a RAAF aircraft - Canberra or whatever ? After all, the locals are probably very primitive and wouldn't know a lot about aircraft let alone a RAAF aircraft missing for over 38 years.

"Magpie 91" had just dropped a bombload from 22,000 feet and was turning away from the target when contact was lost. So if it had been hit by a missile or AA and crashed from that altitude into thick jungle then there would not have been much left.

So how did the RAAF come to know of its whereabouts after being lost for 38 years ? Did local Vietnamese find some pieces which they passed on to Government officials ? Did they then find their way to the USAF Missing Aircraft Investigation Unit ? Did a USAF team visit the site ? Perhaps the USAF realised that it was not one of their missing aircraft and may have been able to find some clues which were then passed on to the RAAF? Maybe they found a con plate, or piece of wreckage that still had RAAF camo on it. Maybe even an outline of the serial on wreckage or pieces of RAAF issue clothing. Who knows ?

The circumstances leading to the discovery of "Magpie 91" will make a good read and I hope the RAAF publishes a full account of it.

Whilst on the subject of the Canberra and its many variants, all the references I have to it in USAF service (some dating back nearly 40 years), refer to the "licence built Martin B57 Canberra."

In fact, Rene Francillon on Page 40 of his book "Vietnam Air War" states .."The first jet bombers to deploy were Martin B57 Canberras of the 8th and 13th Tactical Bomber Squadrons.

Phil Chinnery makes similar mention of this first deployment on Page 56 of his book "Air War In Vietnam" and a third reference I have says the first deployment occurred on 4 August 1964 to Bien Hoa where three of the first eight B57 Canberra bombers to arrive were written off in landing accidents so the remaining five had to deploy elsewhere temporarily. The first "in country" offensive sortie took place on 18 February 1965.

Fifty eight USAF B57 Canberras were lost in Vietnam (40 in combat, 18 in accidents) and the surviving B57Bs were withdrawn in 1969 after a short time operating alongside the RAAF Canberra B20s at Phan Rang.

The heavily modified USAF B57G "Tropic Moon 111" (based on the B57B airframe) returned to South East Asia in September 1970 with the 13th Tactical Bomber Squadron and was based at Ubon, Thailand. The aircraft was optimised for night and all weather interdiction bombing missions of the Ho Chi Minh Trail whereas the earlier B57Bs and Cs were daylight bombers.

Whilst the USAF airframes did not look like the RAAF ones, the generic term "Canberra" bomber still applied. The Canberra had more than 25 variants with some (like the USAF models) looking quite different to those of the RAAF which were similar to the RAF's B2s.

The RAF's last operational version - the PR9 variant - is a good example of an airframe not looking like the original but nevertheless it was still referred to as a Canberra. After 50 years in RAF service, the Canberra was finally retired in 2006.

[Damian N]

I agree Bob the story of how the Canberra was located is probably quite fascinating. There was an article in the newspaper in the last couple of days (not sure which day or paper - think it was The Australian) which appeared to have a pic taken at the crash site and all that was visible was a pile of twisted metal amongst thick growth. If I recall the article did say some RAAF clothing or unit badges or similar was found at the site.

[damien b]

I would suggest that this

discovered including a club badge which was unique to RAAF’s No. 2 Squadron.

as mentioned in the article would have lead investigators to determine it was a RAAF aircraft, or at least crewed by a 2 Sqn person.

[Bob C]

Hi Damien

I've just read a good article in today's "West Australian" about the find.

Apparently villagers had pinpointed various crash sites, most of which were American. One remained unidentified.

The presence of Rolls Royce engines and a crumbled membership badge for the "Phah Rang Ugly Club" is reported as "undeniable evidence remains". The exact sequence of events is not mentioned but this was strong evidence that the aircraft was the missing RAAF Canberra. Whether these were found before or after the ADF team commenced its investigation is unclear.

The article also mentioned that critical information had come from Vietnamese villagers, thanks to the goodwill generated by Australian aid programs in the province.

[Kelvin R]

I managed to catch the press conference on Sky News and the RAAF mentioned that the DSTO was involved in narrowing the search area.

[Jethro H]

Since last year, a retired 11 Sqn navigator workmate and I maintained a constant communication with the Minister about finding these two men after we were upset by a media release when Private David Fisher's remains were bought home last year. The Minister claimed that he was "the last Australian", completely forgeting (nor not being told) that two airmen were still outstanding.

The Minister did correct his media release later and thankfully there was then more pressure to complete this search which has been going on for some years.

Locating these men (well, at least the Canberra) brings some closure to those involved. Further investigations should show their fate. There is a chance they may of banged out before the crash, but the Canberra was sadly not very well known for the injection system.

Lest we forget gentlemen, lest we forget.

[Bob C]

The following url appeared on another site and makes very interesting and poignant reading but still leaves questions unanswered.

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/s...018553,00.html