Boeing Does Redesign Work On 787 - Report

[Gerald A]

March 20, 2008
Boeing said it would have to redesign parts of its 787 Dreamliner, raising the prospect of a new delay to the new aircraft, the Financial Times reported on Thursday.

According to the FT, Boeing was responding to a warning from the chairman of International Lease Finance, the 787's biggest customer, saying the state of the 787 program was "not pretty".

Boeing told the FT it is doing some redesign work but said the ILFC was not painting an accurate picture of the overall program.

(Reuters)

Gerald

[Brenden S]

I wonder if its going to blow out more than the A380. Both Boeing and Airbus are using new technology so there will have to be problems along the line somewhere.

[Greg M]

Originally Posted by Brenden S

I wonder if its going to blow out more than the A380. Both Boeing and Airbus are using new technology so there will have to be problems along the line somewhere.

I guess Airbus hope it will and Boeing hope it wont, at least with the A380 delays it makes it easier for Boeing to justify the delays, as ugly as it might seem, its make more sense to delay before its released then to gain bad publicity and require retrofits after release.
Look at A380, all the post delivery publicity and response has been very positive.

[Scott Lindsell]

Something I've wanted to mention to you guys back in Oz for a while during the board outage ..... I can't see power on being as currently anticipated. I was up at PAE the other day and saw the first three frames. There is a lot of work yet to be done, pieces lying all around the aircraft, and at the time I was there not a whole lot of people working on it (could have been shift change and it was a FRI). The factory floor is a sight to be seen. Unlike the conventional factory floor with a couple of small stations I would estimate around 500 small cubicles and stations each with a laptop or desktop and hundreds of employees working out in the open. There were panels missing, cowlings off, and the paint looked a little sad after its roll out ceremony. The second and third frames on the line (non-airworthy test) looked in better shape and seemed to have more attention on them.
Looks can be deceiving and I'm sure another update from Boeing (read possible delay) may be around the corner.
I wouldn't put much emphasis on 'changing the design/specs' articles as it's well known they are trying to reduce weight issues and that also falls under this category.
Scott.

[Shameel Kumar]

Thanks Scott for the first-hand information mate! ... great that you're able to share such information!

Just curious though... this entire time I've been wondering what exactly has been the root cause of these 787 delays. You stated that the 787 ate too much and now is on a diet..but is this the sole reason for these continual delays or just the latest of a string of problems?

Boeing made it clear that the first few 787 frames would be overweight, no suprise there.. but these continual delays suggest that the weight problems are more a 'permanent' issue rather than just exclusive to the first few frames...

[Ash W]

Originally Posted by Shameel Kumar

Thanks Scott for the first-hand information mate! ... great that you're able to share such information!

Just curious though... this entire time I've been wondering what exactly has been the root cause of these 787 delays. You stated that the 787 ate too much and now is on a diet..but is this the sole reason for these continual delays or just the latest of a string of problems?

Boeing made it clear that the first few 787 frames would be overweight, no suprise there.. but these continual delays suggest that the weight problems are more a 'permanent' issue rather than just exclusive to the first few frames...

According to other sources (the orders E group), it seems as if the major problem is a full redesign of the wing box. This redesign has also contributed to the weight problem and slowed down the whole process.

[Olle Q]

This is Dreamliner news coming from BBC:

Boeing has announced another major delay to delivery of its new 787 Dreamliner aircraft.
The plane is now about 15 months behind its original schedule. The first flight will be in the fourth quarter of 2008.
The target for delivery of the first plane to Japan's All Nippon Airways is now the third quarter of 2009. The previous target was early 2009.
Boeing has blamed slow progress on assembly and continuing problems with suppliers for the delays.
'Regret'
In a statement, Boeing said the new timetable included "additional schedule margin to reduce risk of further delays on the program".
"We deeply regret the disruption and disappointment these changes will cause for our customers and we will work closely with each of them to minimize the impact," Scott Carson, head of Boeing's commercial airplanes division.
But the firm's shares rose nearly 4% in early trading after it said the latest delays would not have an adverse impact on its profits this year.
Boeing had received 802 orders for the Dreamliner by the start of 2008, which makes it the planemaker's fastest selling model.
It will be Boeing's first completely new aircraft since 1995.
It takes advantage of new technology that allows much of it to be made of plastic composites instead of aluminium, which means it is lighter and, Boeing claims, will consume 20% less fuel than other, similar-sized planes.
It also has a greater range than similar-sized planes, which Boeing hopes will mean it can open up new, direct long-haul routes.
This strategy is in contrast to the new Airbus A380, which also suffered from hefty delays before it finally entered service in October.
The A380 is designed to carry larger numbers of people between hubs where they can change onto smaller aircraft to reach their final destinations.

[Ash W]

No surprise really and good to see they have given the thing a more realistic time frame rather than rush like they had orginally planned.

I note that the quote ANA's revised delivery time and not their original time.

[Gerald A]

16-Apr-2008 :

BOEING officially announced its revised plan for first flight and initial deliveries of the 787 Dreamliner that includes additional schedule margin to reduce risk of further delays on the programme.

First flight is being rescheduled due to slower than expected completion of work that travelled from supplier facilities into Boeing’s final assembly line, unanticipated rework, and the addition of margin into the testing schedule. The schedule now targets approximately 25 deliveries in 2009.
First flight of Dreamliner will move into the fourth quarter of this year rather than the end of the second quarter, and first delivery is now planned for the third quarter of 2009 instead of first quarter.

Company officials expressed confidence in the new plan and the steps being taken to accelerate programme performance.

“Over the past few months, we have taken strong actions to confront and overcome start-up issues on the programme, and we have made solid progress,” said Boeing Commercial Airplanes president and chief executive officer, Scott Carson. “Nevertheless, the travelled work situation and some unanticipated rework have prevented us from hitting the milestones we laid out in January. Our revised schedule is built upon an achievable, high-confidence plan for getting us to our power-on and first-flight milestones.

“We deeply regret the disruption and disappointment these changes will cause for our customers, and we will work closely with each of them to minimise the impact. We have taken significant action to improve supply chain and production system performance, such as our investment in Global Aeronautica, but based on our assessment, the prudent course is to proceed with a more gradual ramp up to full-rate production,” said Carson.

The manufacturer faces compensation claims from airlines affected by the delays and will be desperate to ensure it does not fall into the same trap as Airbus did with the A380, by missing revised targets on a number of occasions, adding to the frustration of customers.

Gerald

[Kurt A]

Boeing pays competitor Airbus via Qantas for delay

Jetstar will request Qantas directors accept a $200 million deal today, which will enable the budget brand to lease a fleet of Airbus jetliners, paid for by the compensation demanded from Boeing.

The board meeting has the cost of acquiring new planes on the agenda, as well as the financial reparations to be received from Boeing after the delays in delivering the 787 Dreamliner.

The directors will also consider an overhauled frequent flyer plan.

The most significant focus for the directors will relate to filling a gap in aircraft capacity, resulting from the third delay in delivery of the new Boeing jet, which is now 15 months behind schedule.

Business Day reports that Qantas sources anticipate the amount to be in excess of the $200 million that Airbus paid to Qantas following the two year delay of the first A380.

Although numbers have not been admitted, a senior airline source informed Business Day, “if you look at the size of the Boeing order against the 12 planes that Airbus delayed you get some idea of how much Boeing will have to pay.”

The delay in delivery has already breached the multimillion dollar contract where Qantas had placed firm orders for 65 Dreamliners and options for a further 50.

Qantas could still renege unscathed, due to the breach, but has clarified that it remains confidence that the fuel efficient Dreamliner will be beneficial and profitable for Jetstar.

The new route plans for Jetstar will be delayed by at least six months, and hence Boeing is expected to compensate for the loss of potential earning and the fact Jetstar will lose the opportunity to be the first discount airline operating certain routes into Asia.

The leasing agreement is necessary for Jetstar to preserve their market share and attract passengers for their expansion plans into Europe.

Jetstar fears that without the new planes, they’ll “be behind the eight-ball when Air AsiaX launches cheap flights from Australia to Europe,” a Qantas senior divulged to Business Day.

Air AsiaX has already announced the plans for cheap flights to London, using their Airbus A350s, but Jetstar will have a limited range with A330s, and will only just reach Athens or Rome.

-eTravel