Verdict on Gardua Captain due today

[Andrew P]

Originally Posted by Matt_L

I simply dont understand why it doesnt extend to Australia.

obvious, Aussie bans them, Indonesia retaliates by banning Aussie airlines from Indonesian air space, also send out a few more boats

it called politics

[NickN]

How can you NOT punish the captain of an aircraft if he commits a serious breach of safety procedures and kills others?

On the seas a ships pilot/captain is responsible if he navigates incorrectly causing death, injury or damage (Sydney Ferries have a few examples of this). On the road a truckie who drives recklessly, speeds etc is held responsible for his actions (he is also driving a vehicle on behalf of a company such as Toll etc.) just as a train driver is responsible for an accident if he fails to follow procedure.

Saying that a pilot is any different, regardless of systemic failures within the airline itself is almost justifying wrongdoing.

I know Montague and others put forward the point that Garuda itself needs to improve training and safety, which we all understand will go a long way to improving their safety record, but that shouldn't automatically remove responsibility from the pilot. He was trained independantly of Garuda, he knows what is right and wrong, procedurally and morally. If he chooses to ignore his training, then some form of punishment needs to be handed down to remind other pilots that they still have a duty of care to themselves, their colleagues and most of all the public.

Yes Garuda needs to institute a new culture of safety first practices but I personally believe that it shouldn't mean that negligent pilots should be allowed to walk away unpunished.

P.S. I do understand in this case the pilot has had his license revoked, which is a good start, and a prison sentence of any kind also sends a message.

[Adrian B]

Matt L,

The reason it wont extend to Australia has been pointed out somewhere (possibly in this post) namely that the retalliation from Indonesia will involve removal of overflight rights to Indonessian airspace. (cannot think of the correct term). direct flights to KL, Singapore and Bangkok. will need to be re-routed around Indonesia). This will effect all flight to Asia and Europe that go via Asia based hubs.

[Matt_L]

Fair enough.

Thanks for the explanation. I still think however something must be done to combat this endemic problem with Garuda- to be honest if I was flying around as a pax or airline pilot I wouldnt want to be sharing the skies with these idiots.. such as garuda, Merpati, Lion Air etc at any flight level!

Just take a look at some of the accidents/incidents here for Indonesia and this doesnt cover all of them http://avherald.com/h?search_term=in...t=0&dosearch=1

I wonder if it will take an accident here with Garuda to get proactive action in regards to this issue just like the fact that Moorabbin airports GAAP procedures are now changing as a result of the mid air with one student death last year.

It seems to take an accident and lives lost for anything to ever happen with CASA and this is not only here, but quite common around the world.

[NickN]

Some of these are a worry....

Garuda B734 near Palembang on Feb 18th 2009, alert of torn fuselage in flight

Garuda A333 near Sydney on Aug 15th 2007, engine shut down in flight due to fatigue fracture

Garuda B734 at Darwin on Dec 17th 2008, failure to comply with ATC instruction

Garuda Indonesia B738 at Perth on May 9th 2008, airplane aimed short of runway twice

Garuda B747 over Bay of Bengal on Apr 12th 2007, nearly collided with an Indian ballistic missile

Garuda B737 at Palangkaraya on Mar 13th 2007, flames and sparks during takeoff run, rejected

The ballistic missile one was interesting!

[Philip Argy]

News just in from Djakarta via AAP:

Garuda pilot's conviction quashed
December 11, 2009 - 8:59PM




AAP
An Indonesian court has overturned a criminal negligence conviction of a Garuda pilot whose plane crashed in 2007 killing 21 people, including five Australians.
A lawyer for Marwoto Komar says the Yogyakarta High Court has quashed Komar's conviction and two-year prison sentence imposed by a district court earlier this year.
"The defendant tried to make a maximum effort as a captain to save the plane and the passengers," lawyer Muchtar Zuhdy told AAP after being given a copy of the court's decision on Friday.
"He is not guilty."
Zuhdy said that the court had also ordered charges against Komar be dropped, meaning prosecutors could not appeal the decision.
"That means this decision is the final decision," Zuhdy said.
Komar's Boeing 737 slammed onto the runway at Yogyakarta airport, careered into a field and exploded in flames on March 7, 2007.
Five Australians were killed in the crash: diplomat Liz O'Neill, AusAID official Allison Sudradjat, Australian Federal Police officers Brice Steele and Mark Scott, and Australian Financial Review journalist Morgan Mellish.
Investigators had argued Komar ignored a series of warnings not to land the plane as he brought it in at about twice the safe speed.
But Komar blamed the disaster on mechanical problems.

[Greg McDonald]

Absolute travesty of justice, but we've come to expect that from Indonesia. How any sane person could fail to see that the captain is heavily at fault here defies belief.
If the Aussie government had any ***** at all they'd ban garuda for a period of time as a protest but 1) They'd simply ban our overflights in retaliation and 2) the government has no ***** anyway!!

[Rhys Xanthis]

"The defendant tried to make a maximum effort as a captain to save the plane and the passengers," lawyer Muchtar Zuhdy told AAP after being given a copy of the court's decision on Friday.

Got to say from what I read on the incident, this doesn't sound accurate at all.

[Owen H]

All reports are that Garuda is picking up their act, and are being allowed back into Europe. Far more can be gained by helping the Indonesian authorities to improve safety than by banning them outright. That will just financially cripple the airlines, leading to even worse practices.

While I understand that a lot of people want the captain of this flight punished, the courts are not necessarily the place to do that when it is a safety related matter, especially when it surrounded by systemic problems rather than just individual behaviour. Unfortunately it is a delicate balance.

[Stephen B]

Originally Posted by Owen H

All reports are that Garuda is picking up their act, and are being allowed back into Europe. Far more can be gained by helping the Indonesian authorities to improve safety than by banning them outright. That will just financially cripple the airlines, leading to even worse practices.

Completely agree, so long as the country and airline concerned (in this case Indonesia and Garuda) actually see a problem and actually want to fix it.

While I understand that a lot of people want the captain of this flight punished, the courts are not necessarily the place to do that when it is a safety related matter, especially when it surrounded by systemic problems rather than just individual behaviour. Unfortunately it is a delicate balance.

Sorry Owen, but you're wrong. The captain of this flight chose his actions, in exactly the same as a car driver who runs a red light. He faces the same court, and the same penalties if convicted as any other mere mortal.