Problems in sydney 10/09

[Bob C]

According to the Sydney Airport website, 41 of 115 QF and 40 of 94 VB Domestic flights departed 15 minutes or more late today. Several QF flights to Perth operated more than 2.5 hours late.

I presume that most, if not all, of these delays were due to fog in Sydney this morning.

[Philip Argy]

Although the early flight disruptions due to fog were a factor, the one-runway ops due to strong westerly winds later in the day was much more disruptive.

My 7.30 am flight to MEL in the morning was 10 minutes late leaving and my return flight due in at 5.00 pm circled Goulburn for 22 minutes before we could get a landing slot at 5.30 pm on RWY 25.

It was during VH-OGT's circling of Goulburn that we had our close encounter with a Virgin 738 - the closest I've come to separation breakdown if it wasn't that - check the attachment.

[Mick F]

the closest I've come to separation breakdown if it wasn't that

Probably not the best choice of words Philip.

That looks to be a good 2-3,000ft seperation there.

Mick

[Philip Argy]

It looked a lot closer to me, Mick - I call it as I saw it with my eyes rather than a mobile phone camera lens. We overtook it and then turned right too.

[Mick F]

Fair enough, however even 1,000ft seperation doesn't look like much (keep in mind that 1,000ft is only 305m's).

Mick

[Scotty B]

Philip, when you pass on a reciprocal with a jet that is actually 1000' below your level, it initially starts out appearing to be above you. It is unnerving at first. Especially if there are 2 heading in the same direction, one 1000' below, and one 1000' above.

1000' separation in a hold also appears a lot closer than it is. Plenty of people have glimpsed a jet that has passed 2000' below or above and hastily complained to FAs that there has been a near miss. It is quite simply that even to the trained eye, distances are very hard to judge in the air.

SB

[Philip Argy]

I accept that, and I would hardly qualify as experienced to judge either, but I am used to seeing aircraft overhead my backyard at 1600' and this looked somewhat closer, albeit below right instead of above left. The position of the Sun and my perspective were such that it was very well illuminated, which could have created the illusion that it was closer, but I felt that only a 100 or so feet closer and I'd have been able to read the rego!

[Ash W]

I take it you don't fly regularly in Europe Philip!

[Philip Argy]

That's true, although I admit to seeing more a/c when flying there, but not as close as this DJ was yesterday afternoon.

[Grant Smith]

Originally Posted by Scotty B

It is quite simply that even to the trained eye, distances are very hard to judge in the air.

'nuff said really...